Very good post Allen - thanks for all this info and the good pointers to keep in mind. This will be something I will keep in my list of things to check in the future. Certainly a painful experience. I feel bad for your friend.

The first pic is from a different incident then the last two. The pilot and the owner of the plane in the last two pics is a friend of mine and I heard the story of that incident. It was not a simple tail wind start. It happened on a Caribbean airport and planes were parked tail to tail.

Sequence of events were:

- Pilot needed to move plane to fuel pumps so he intended to start one engine to taxi.
- Pilot got into plane and tried to start first engine. Engaged starter, added fuel, didn't start after 30 seconds, went fuel to idle cutoff, motored engine for 15 seconds per checklist.
- Pilot knew there was no tailwind and was not sure why it did not start.
- So after scratching his head and waiting a few minutes he tried start again. This time engine started normally.
- As he taxied to fuel pumps line man was frantically waving at pilot to shut down.
- Upon shutdown pilot got out and saw fire damage to the tail.

What he believes happened:

- While he got settled in the cockpit the plane parked opposite him started their engines. Suddenly he had a big tailwind blowing into his engines on start.
- The engine did not start due to the "tailwind" and Jet-A was pumped out the back of the motor.
- The "tailwind" blew the Jet-A onto the tail.
- Then the aircraft creating the tailwind pulled away before he tried the second start
- Engine started normally the second time and it ignited the Jet-A on the airframe.

Repairs were a few hundreds of thousands. Skins and control surfaces needed to be replaced as well as paint.

Lessons learned are:

- Other aircraft can create artificial tailwinds. Be aware of your surroundings during an engine start.
- If a turbojet engine does not start don't try another start until you get out an look over the situation. Check where all the Jet-A went during the aborted start.
- A hung start in training is treated as a benign event. It can be much more complex and dangerous.

Regarding the first picture, here is the NTSB preliminary report. The airplane was oriented on a 325 degree heading and the wind was 210 degrees at 19 knots, gusting to 27 (almost a 10 knot tailwind gusts):

Nonscheduled 14 CFR Part 135: Air Taxi & Commuter
Accident occurred Friday, May 09, 2014 in Columbus, OH
Aircraft: CESSNA 525C, registration: N718MV
Injuries: 4 Uninjured.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed. NTSB investigators may not have traveled in support of this investigation and used data provided by various sources to prepare this aircraft accident report.

On May 9, 2014, about 1537 eastern daylight time, a Cessna 525C multi-engine turbofan airplane, N718MV, was substantially damaged during an engine start at Rickenbacker International Airport (LCK), Columbus, Ohio. The two crewmembers and two passengers were not injured. The airplane was registered to Foxy Air 2009 LLC; Columbus, Ohio, and was being operated by Capital City Jet Center, Inc.; Columbus, Ohio. Day visual meteorological conditions (VMC) prevailed at the time of the accident and an instrument flight rules (IFR) flight plan had been filed for the 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 135 non-scheduled passenger flight. At the time of the accident the airplane was preparing to depart LCK for a flight to Bolton Field Airport (TZR), Columbus, Ohio.

The airplane was parked on the ramp and oriented on a heading of about 325 degrees with the main cabin door shut and the right engine operating. The flight crew had initiated a start sequence on the left engine when witnesses outside the airplane notified them of a fire in the left engine. The flight crew then shut down both engines, closed the left firewall shutoff, activated the fire bottle, and all four occupants evacuated through the main cabin door. The fire continued to burn and was extinguished by aircraft rescue and fire fighting (ARFF) crews. The fire resulted in substantial damage to empennage and the left engine pylon, and the rear of the left engine cowling was mostly consumed.

At 1535, the official surface weather observation site at LCK, reported wind from 210 degrees at 19 knots, gusting to 27 knots, visibility of 10 miles, temperature 25 degrees Celsius (C), dew point 12 degrees C, and an altimeter setting of 29.87 inches of Mercury.

I had that situation once at a small airport in Canada with no services and no way to turn the plane into the wind. I got the engine started on the side with the tail blanking the crosswind and then taxied the plane into the wind to start the other engine. With one engine running they could have moved the plane into the wind.

It is interesting to note that both plane with these start problems are CJ4's and they happened within a few weeks apart.

Yes.

If my plane is not parked into the wind for start, I will get my portable tow bar, turn the nose 90 degrees (it disconnects for towing), and spin it in place until it is. Even though the plane is 10,000 lbs, this is not that difficult. Does surprise the line folk sometimes, though. Into the wind is faster, cooler starts.

You should be aware of other airplanes running around you. Jet and prop blast are bad. And it isn't just the tailwind aspect, they kick up dirt, sand, grit that you don't want in your engines either. I just wait until they move on and then start.

Nose into the wind is not just about start either. Shutting down nose into the wind is also important. If the wind is up the tail pipe, the heat flow in the engine after shutdown is backwards and the parts that normally don't get so hot (compressor, fuel nozzles, etc) are now getting really hot from reverse air flow. You want the plane parked into the wind so the heat goes the normal direction because everything that way is used to being hot. Making fuel nozzles hot is a big deal, that can start carbon build up and streaking, which leads to expensive problems in the hot section.

For jets, if they park with a tailwind, the fans can turn backwards. I don't know if this does harm or not, but I would think turning forwards is preferred.

It is one of my pet peeves to have line guys marshall me into a parking spot tail into the wind. I will defy them and park nose into the wind if it is significant. I make a point of educating line people about this when I can.

I've seen a lot of turbine pilots who don't care about this stuff, too. Almost universally, the pilot isn't the one paying the bills.

Mike C.

This is what using your head is all about. Very good.

Mark/Dave and others,

I'm not sure what FMS the straight Vs have in them but thought I'd post here. I've been leasing an Ultra that has a Universal FMS and I'm looking for some good resources to learn more. I've had a few 'what's it doing now?' moments. My initial training didn't cover much on it - it was kind of an afterthought.

Last week I was taking vectors for a GPS approach. I was on a heading to intercept, armed NAV, and ended up flying through the final approach course. I could tell it wasn't going to capture and hand flew the approach with out the AP or flight director. It's happened before but I've also successfully captured other times. Not sure what is going on.

I have a few other minor questions.

Does anyone have any good training material or resources for the Universal UNS 1?

Thanks,
Brent

Sorry I initially posted this in the citation purchasing thread - I'm replying to your post there Dave.



Not sure on the Global GNS; I've got the Universal manual but it's not training. They didn't provide anything on the Universal to me. In all fairness, they did review it but it wasn't their strong point and I'm kind of a geek about that stuff - I like to know every detail about the avionics.

[youtube]http://youtu.be/kSQg-MBBmx8[/youtube]

Big line of storms just 7 miles from KBKV. Painting magenta on radar. Thunder in the air as we got in. Immediate left turn kept us clear. Lots of CBs in Florida today.

Mark,
Nice video...funny I was just thinking, wonder when Mark will post a new video and here it is.


Dave
KSFB

We were dealing with the tail end of that same front I think coming in Destin yesterday afternoon.

KSAW to KHPN

Trip time 1:55
fuel consumed 338 gal
Price 3.17/gal
FL 350
350 knot tas in cruise
100 knot tail wind

Two days of meetings
1 night

Vs airline:
$1,000
6 stops,
21 travel hours,
4 days total
3 nights @$500 per plus meals
How much is my time worth?

Priceless

This

Mark, my wife is learning to fly now too.....which is good because historically she has avoided it like the plague.....Andrea Cannon has spurred her on even more.

We need to encourage more female pilots......

+1

Mike C.

This

Mark, my wife is learning to fly now too.....which is good because historically she has avoided it like the plague.....Andrea Cannon has spurred her on even more.

We need to encourage more female pilots......