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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 11 Oct 2019, 16:30 
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Username Protected wrote:
Some macro thoughts from various perspectives on the nature of human progress in general, and observations on observations made by the copious misanthropists posing as zetetics. The latter melancholy actuality (as demonstrated below), both, obscured by previous grand distinction, and proven to be precisely so not a priori, but ipso facto.


Someone give you a thesaurus for your birthday? :doh:

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 11 Oct 2019, 16:37 
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Username Protected wrote:
Some macro thoughts from various perspectives on the nature of human progress in general, and observations on observations made by the copious misanthropists posing as zetetics. The latter melancholy actuality (as demonstrated below), both, obscured by previous grand distinction, and proven to be precisely so not a priori, but ipso facto.


Someone give you a thesaurus for your birthday? :doh:

No, someone furnished him with a thesaurus to honor the anniversary of his circumnavigation of the massive celestial body that is the nucleus of our solar system.


(I had to look up most of those words.)

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 11 Oct 2019, 16:54 
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Username Protected wrote:
Some macro thoughts from various perspectives on the nature of human progress in general, and observations on observations made by the copious misanthropists posing as zetetics. The latter melancholy actuality (as demonstrated below), both, obscured by previous grand distinction, and proven to be precisely so not a priori, but ipso facto.


Someone give you a thesaurus for your birthday? :doh:


He needs to learn to speak southern. Falkner was easier to read.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 11 Oct 2019, 17:34 
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That guy must be at treat in meetings that he makes way too long.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 11 Oct 2019, 17:47 
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Username Protected wrote:
Some macro thoughts from various perspectives on the nature of human progress in general, and observations on observations made by the copious misanthropists posing as zetetics. The latter melancholy actuality (as demonstrated below), both, obscured by previous grand distinction, and proven to be precisely so not a priori, but ipso facto.

Everyone finds their level in life. It becomes obvious very quickly who is comparing themselves to others, and who is comparing themselves to the best of which they are capable. History showing the former always hate the latter. And some men, even having learned that lesson, forget it and regress. The battle is both, real and never ending.

Expert congressional testimony on integrating and supporting the "tomfoolery" of private initiatives (i.e SpaceX) - Neil Armstrong - Master of Science degree in Aerospace Engineering, numerous honorary PhD's. First man to walk on the moon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp5DfNhhGX4&t=4m10s

For the record Neil was dead wrong as demonstrated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0-pfzKbh2k

An expert practitioner on experts. (Self-made) billionaire Vinod Khosla on "expert opinion not being better than dart throwing monkeys and why innovation ALWAYS comes from the edges, never the core (of industry or society.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7Dai5VyNaA&t=0m48s

Haters gonna hate :hide: (from the cheap seats). Doers gonna do :dancing:

Airspeed is alive
Gauges in the green
V1.. rotate
Positive rate indicated
Gear up
Yaw damper engaged
Welcome to Shangri La
Your ticket stamped and paid for by the doers :angel:

Fly Raptor fly


My takeaways from your assessment:
1. I am a dart throwing money
2. Does the Raptor really have a yaw damper?


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 11 Oct 2019, 17:50 
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Username Protected wrote:
2. Does the Raptor really have a yaw damper?


Why not. It's got just about everything else.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 11 Oct 2019, 18:10 
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Username Protected wrote:
2. Does the Raptor really have a yaw damper?

It probably needs one to fly that high with that wing sweep (and no ventral fin, which can otherwise alleviate some of the need for a yaw damper.).


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 11 Oct 2019, 18:16 
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The yaw damper was eliminated to save weight! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 11 Oct 2019, 19:08 
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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 11 Oct 2019, 21:26 
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Username Protected wrote:

Someone give you a thesaurus for your birthday? :doh:

No, someone furnished him with a thesaurus to honor the anniversary of his circumnavigation of the massive celestial body that is the nucleus of our solar system.


(I had to look up most of those words.)


He circumnavigated The Sun?

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 11 Oct 2019, 21:34 
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Username Protected wrote:
He circumnavigated The Sun?

Yes, while keeping clear of it by about 93 million miles, give or take. More like an ellipse.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 12 Oct 2019, 09:34 
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As a Marine and a doer, that there was a lot of big $.25 words I probably don’t understand. But I also hope the bird flys.[/quote]

As a former Navy man it's a ridiculously hard thing to do for me not immediately give you %#$@ for being a "jarhead grunt." :-) Cept those same things are what make you Marines beautiful things of God's grand creation.....

The notion of sacrifice, suffering for a cause greater than oneself, and understanding and accepting today might be the day your number comes up are things you do not have to explain to a United States Marine.

Not only are ya'll willing to put your own skin in the game, you have a knack for betting on the right horse before you do.

Thanks for your service brother. Semper Fi.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 12 Oct 2019, 09:47 
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Username Protected wrote:
“why innovation ALWAYS comes from the edges, never the core (of industry or society.)“

The problem that you and many other supporters fail to see is that there is no real innovation involved in the Raptor. We already know how these wings make lift. We know how Audi Diesel engines work. We know enough about power to weight ratios and about drag coefficients and the other factors that will define performance. To hit the promised cruise speeds at promised fuel burn he needed an incredible reduction in drag compared to a existing 4-5 seat planes and/or a major improvement in BSFC over existing engine designs. The airframe is clearly not going to deliver big drag reduction over a Velocity and the engine came from an old Audi design that we already know can’t produce the power and efficiency necessary.

For the Raptor to perform as promised, it needed some major innovation. That hasn’t happened and instead we have seen it gain a tremendous amount of weight while simultaneously coming up short on power output. Pointing that out, or the many other engineering concerns, doesn’t make someone anti-innovation or a naysayer. It is called learning from experience and the experience of others.


"The problem that you and many other supporters fail to see is that there is no real innovation involved in the Raptor."

Hmmm, What do you reckon best deadstick L/D (and at what speed) of the Raptor will be compared to most 4-5 seaters on the market?

I have a sneaking suspicion the polar of this airframe/wing combo is going to be out of sight compared to anything in its class. 25-30/1 would not surprise me depending on best prop feathering.

She's a little chubby in her freshman prom dress, and may take a bit more runway to get her off than originally planned, but I expect her top cruise/fuel burn combo is going to dynamite.

Also expect when she comes back for sophomore year she's gonna shed a few pounds and may even have cleaner lines still.

Big questions in my mind are engine reliability and power transmission rig to the prop. I think the engine may way out perform what many think. The torque curve is a beautiful fit, and the turbo is gonna let her breathe up high.

We shall see.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 12 Oct 2019, 10:19 
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Username Protected wrote:
Hmmm, What do you reckon best deadstick L/D (and at what speed) of the Raptor will be compared to most 4-5 seaters on the market?

I have a sneaking suspicion the polar of this airframe/wing combo is going to be out of sight compared to anything in its class. 25-30/1 would not surprise me depending on best prop feathering.

Hi Chris, I ran some rudimentary performance numbers a couple years ago and posted them on this thread:

Quote:
Just basic thrust/drag/speed/horsepower performance sanity check on the original figures, 300hp at 300 knots at 25,000 feet needs a 2.4 sq.ft. equivalent flat plate area. That is a very skinny airplane! Some of the speediest two seat, unpressurized homebuilts (some canards, Glasairs, and Lancairs) are down around 2 sq.ft. Just for comparison, a Bonanza is about three times that.



I approached the calculation kinda backwards by starting with horsepower. I also didn't apportion any of the total drag as induced drag, I didn't get into propeller efficiency, nor did convert it into L:D. Just purely pushing a physical object through the air.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 12 Oct 2019, 10:31 
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Username Protected wrote:
Hmmm, What do you reckon best deadstick L/D (and at what speed) of the Raptor will be compared to most 4-5 seaters on the market?

I have a sneaking suspicion the polar of this airframe/wing combo is going to be out of sight compared to anything in its class. 25-30/1 would not surprise me depending on best prop feathering.

Hi Chris, I ran some rudimentary performance numbers a couple years ago and posted them on this thread:

Quote:
Just basic thrust/drag/speed/horsepower performance sanity check on the original figures, 300hp at 300 knots at 25,000 feet needs a 2.4 sq.ft. equivalent flat plate area. That is a very skinny airplane! Some of the speediest two seat, unpressurized homebuilts (some canards, Glasairs, and Lancairs) are down around 2 sq.ft. Just for comparison, a Bonanza is about three times that.



I approached the calculation kinda backwards by starting with horsepower. I also didn't apportion any of the total drag as induced drag, I didn't get into propeller efficiency, nor did convert it into L:D. Just purely pushing a physical object through the air.


That is brilliant. Nice job. Kinda gets back to my main point. Boundary area laminar nose and body flow (i.e non turbulent flow across the frontal area/wing root) and the transition through the wing root on this bird is what I believe the implications of which are being misunderstood.

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