You didn't precisely define either of those words, so hard to say a simple yes or no.

I think the SF50 will be a financial failure for its owners. Used prices will be low.

I think Cirrus will find it hard to sell many more past the 500 initially on the order book. I expect about 100 positions will evaporate, so maybe only 400 get delivered. If Cirrus didn't have the SR line and Chinese money, the SF50 line would bankrupt them (and nearly did already). I expect Cirrus to keep production rate fairly low. There's no incentive to reach the end of the order book too quickly, and they are losing money on each one presently, so don't invest in a production ramp up to lose money faster.

A short range, fuel thirsty, no redundancy, inadequate parachute, altitude limited, noisy cabin jet that ATC treats like a turboprop. Wow, what a deal!

It is really frustrating that Eclipse frakked it up with their damn innovation religion and Cirrus frakked it up with their damn single engine religion. If either company had listened to the tiniest amount of common sense from the industry, they would have been successes. Sigh.

Mike C.

Which was promptly killed.

Eclipse is a poor poster boy for an "experienced" twin jet maker, but even they saw the light before making a bigger mistake.

Mike C.

What happen to carrying 8 people from KASE to KPDK?

Mike C.

EA500 stall speed 69 knots.

SF50 stall speed 67 knots.

If you are a pilot who can't fly 2 knots faster, get a bicycle.

Mike C.

What happen to carrying 8 people from KASE to KPDK?

Mike C.

But now they need a type rating, far harder to get than a multi rating.

Mike C.

Reality bites.

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all ... -jet-pilot

His transition to flying the Cirrus Jet took four weeks of intensive training, including a challenging ground school curriculum; 10 hours of flight time with an instructor in Duluth, Minnesota; and 25 hours of flight time with a mentor flying across the United States to gain real-world experience as a jet pilot. To supplement his training, Jolley also amassed another 25 hours of flight experience flying with an instructor in another Cirrus Jet prior to his delivery.
...
"I passed the ride, but it took me three to four weeks to decompress," said Jolley, obviously relieved to have that hurdle behind him.

Sounds like it took him at least 2 months to be able to fly his plane solo. This sounds quite a bit worse than the Eclipse training program which was deemed tougher than typical twin jets at the time.


I doubt any SF50 depositor truly understood what they were signing up for with regards to training. Cirrus sold the plane as "simple", really just an SR22 with a jet engine. It really isn't, so that was a bit of a ruse. Has a lot of complex systems, often more complex than twin jets. For example, the two yaw damper systems required as a consequence of the V/X tail stability problems.

Now that the plane is real, and the realities of training, operating, paying for it are real, you can't sell dreams any more.

Mike C.

They’ve already delivered over 80 SF50s. Where is reality bites?

Btw.... it’s almost 2019. Ha

Exactly. They sold the airplane. Sure, some pilots are going to have a more difficult time transitioning than others, but not all. But if they’re willing to do it, and stay with it, it works out in the end. Cirrus puts another sale on the board. Like I said before, It doesn’t matter which is harder or easier. It just matters what customers are willing to do.

No SF50 owner knew what they would have to do when they signed the contract.

So the fact the plane was sold to them a decade ago is not testament to customer's willingness to spend 4 weeks to get a type rating.

Mike C.

To say that no customer knew what he was getting into is assuming you know absolutely everything about every situation. Furthermore, not everyone is going to take four weeks to get a type rating. You’re doing too much generalizing to support your opinion.

Wow

Not at all, it is saying that no one knew, not even Cirrus, what the training program would be like when the airplane contract was signed 10+ year ago. So buyers did not know what they were signing up for.


I would expect any given pilot to take less time to get a Mustang type rating than an SF50 type rating.

Typical Mustang type rating initial course says 12-13 days.

Mike C.

At this point, it’s clear that you really don’t know what you’re talking about. You’re just rambling on and on...

It didn't take 4 weeks. Read the article again.