For those talking about $800K being too much and their used plane being a much better buy, I don't think anyone is arguing with that. A good used car is usually a better buy too. Unfortunately, Beech doesn't make any money when you buy used. I think the initial topic is more about Beech needing to change their ways if they plan to stay in business. I for one want Beech to succeed.

Having finally gotten through all of the posts, there was a telling post about build times. The Cirrus number was higher than what I thought. When moving from G1to G2 Cirrus had an exec who had worked for New United Motors. In one case he took an inside baggage door assembly from four pieces to one. That improved fit and finish while reducing cost and reducing build time. Beech needs to actively work to reduce build time.

At the risk of getting dumped on I would like to know what Beech quality is these days. I used to think of Beech as the high quality product. However a mechanic who only works on Beech products says quality has gone way down and new planes are being delivered with lots of squawks. He says he is seeing them in his shop and now goung with owners pucking up new planes. Anyone know anything about this? What is te delivery experience like on a new G36?

Dennis,

Personally, I think the Cirrus kicks the pants of the Baron or Bonanza in terms of flying qualities. The analogy I like to give is the Beech line feels like you driving my pickup truck (GMS Sierra 2500HD with Crew Cab). The Cirrus is like driving a BMW M3: sporty, responsive and no feel of the road.

At the end of the day, sure if flying across the country in any piston plane is not very practical. Nothing about piston planes is practical when discussing 2000+ miles. But the majority of the commercial flights in the USA are between city paris of less 800nm (this is what I recall from the no-plane no-gain campaign). That is within the range of most GA planes and that is definitely is defined as XC. Most GA is regional, very few us go all over the country in a piston plane.

Tim

Tony: Well written! I wish I could have said it as well. And I agree with every one of your points...and yup, I was amazed at the smoothness of the ride on a hotish afternoon in Atlanta. Wing loading, I guess.

Dennis: As so many say...depends on the mission to establish if it makes sense as a business plane. For me...and that is an absolutely personal observation...I WANT to push buttons on my business trips. I set the autopilot and we plan the meeting...me and the other guy I am flying with. I have the Cub to play with. And...at altitude, the TCirrus will run with the Barons...at least within 10-15 KTS. Again...my mission is me plus one...rarely two. 500 ish miles. Perfect fit.

Russ: Don't know where you get $829K. The one I am seriously doing the math on is right at $760K. And the only thing I'm not springing for is the "Global Connect". You could do it nicely in a Turbo for around $600ish. And yes...either one is way more than I could buy a Baron for. But our friendly Uncle Sam has volunteered to pay me north of $300K in tax savings...much of it the first year. Takes a fair amount of sting out of the sticker shock. Of course, this airplane is gonna be pretty close to 100% business use. I've got the Cub for play time.

And I don't really have to worry for a few years (one can buy a 5 year warranty) about my engine eating an alternator and costing me $35K. Or the dread $20K+ annual. Or those pesky cylinders...or...although one needs to read the fine print on the warranty to see if "Spinner to rudder" really is.

Jason has the right of it...There isn't a Bo or a Baron (that I've been in) that matches the Cirrus in fit, finish, or integration. And in this day and age, having an I-airplane is NOT a bad thing...I think.

Back to talking about Bo's...but my head has been turned...

Jim

The twists and turns of this thread have been quite fascinating.

I am glad to see Tony and Jim relate their new Cirrus experiences, confirming how this thread started ----> Cirrus has it goin' on!

And, for those who keep on saying that the new Cirrus is for the "entry level" pilot, well.....that's just wrong, as exemplified by two of BT's own very experienced pilots, Jim and Tony, and by a couple hundred others each year.

Hmmm I'm sitting here wondering if I should have spent more time looking at the cirrus a bit more instead of buying the new G58.

Would have been ale to build a new hanger with the left over cash.

Only thing how do I fit six in it?

You need a King Air

Not a PC12???

I put 6 in my G36 one time and it was pretty cramped. Notice I only did this 1 time.

I like the extra room in Bo and Baron for when I have 4 on board. It's much roomier than the Cirrus.

Cirrus should buy the Baron and the Bo. They should also buy Epic. Then they'd have all bases covered.

I agree. When ever we have six in the baron it's a rush for the door to get out when landed.

With 4 in you put news paper on the seats and your feet up and it's business class without the shoulder room.

Well, beats driving.

The message here....Cirrus really stepped up their game and even Beech loyalists are looking. If I were to commonly fly 300 NM + missions, I'd think twice about buying a new Cirrus rather than fighting thru all the STCs to upgrade my G36.

I bought my G36 for a different reason. I wanted a complex aircraft that fits a highly versatile, short range mission. The barn doors creates several additional options, it's the best NA single piston, and the greater comfort when flying with 4 in the cabin makes it a winner for me. I added tips for the GWI, but the extra fuel can make up for the slower airspeeds for the once a year trip of distance.

Another benefit.... if I forget the landing gear in the interim, I'll know for sure that I won't want to step up to a turbine!

There is a niche market for owners that think like me, and I suspect Beech knows that. Last year Beech was in bankruptcy and was out of parts, so don't use that data. I suspect there will be a market for 25 or so units/yr for a while. If I was buying another single piston with no changes to my mission, the G36 would win. But....my mission will change in the next year or two, and depending on the choices at the time, my Beech loyalty could vanish.

Heck yes... 10 hour drive verse 1:25 in the baron and 2:35 in the R44.

Cozy.....

Jeff is a good egg. I do some aircraft expos with him throughout the year. I believe he has been one of the top Cirrus salesmen the last 4-5 years. If memory serves me correctly he offices out of PWA at Atlantic?