The key word is "occurrence" - an accident has to trigger the claim. If the wing fell off you have every right to file a claim alleging the product failed. The wing falling off is the occurrence.

There is no coverage for recalls or breach of warranty claims under the Aviation Products Liability policy.

edit - of course no lawsuit is necessary, you can simply file a claim. But the lawsuit means they are already looking at defense costs and the possibility of settlement is arguably more likely.

So guys, whaddya think? 50 pages????

Ok...this thread inspired me to fly a Generation 5 Cirrus. Well, this thread and bonus depreciation.

I called the regional guy on the phone number provided by the website. His name is Jonathon Sweatman. Nice fella. He answered my questions and invited me to have a test flight. He could come down to Wetumpka the next day, should I desire. Turned out I had some meetings in Atlanta on Monday so we met there.

He presented the information on the airplane very professionally and discussed all of my (beech-talk derived) questions with patience and good cheer. We then walked out to the aircraft in question. Very nice fit and finish. Walked around it (hot day in Atlanta...for the time of the year...88 or so) and discussed many of the features. He put me in the left seat (much easier to get into than the Cub...or the Meridian...or a Bo, as far as that goes).

Door closed nicely...and glory be, my head (even in a headset) didn't touch the headliner (another difference from the Bo). The seat felt ok, but it was a fairly short demo. He did a VERY professional briefing, discussing the parachute (we did a call-out as we passed 500 feet agl climbing out..."in the parameter for chute deployment"...did another one coming down). and all of the other equipment and their failure modes. Two batteries. First turn on the backup...and you get flight instruments. Turn on the second and the rest come on. Crank the engine (very quiet, that...turbocharged). Turn on the AC. Mmmm the AC was NICE.

Taxiied out (past FiFi...big beautiful airplane that) and off we went. I hand fllew it The sidestick is actually pretty intuitive and the trim coolie hat works a treat. We did a fair to middling amount of airwork. Explored the...deal where it won't let you overbank...it actually lets you do exactly what you want, but when you go past 45 degrees it just kinda gives you a couple of pulses every once in a while. Be real handy if you get distracted on the turn to final in traffic and overbank...kind of a nice reminder. But you can do whatever you want.

The panel is amazing. Traffic is there...and intuitive. The engine instruments are terrific and complete. When you level off you pull the single throttle/prop control back to (somewhere, I didn't really notice). Then a blue line pops up on the fuel flow meter...you pull the mixture back to that blue line and voila! LOP. We were running at 17.4 or so GPH. Moving pretty good and nice cool cylinders. Hottest was 360 (#4...must it ALWAYS be #4?). We didn't play much with that, but the information is there and very clearly displayed.

He demoed the EVS...an IR camera. Very cool for navigating clouds on a hazy day. I suspect very nice on the runway (or clouds) at night too. Again...the integration of the display was amazing. You can certainly screw it up, I guess, but you'd have to work at it. And it is multiply redundant. Not sure I understand how there would be a failure mode where you would lose the autopilot, for instance. Which was very nice. The blue button is quite cool. We put it in some very interesting attitudes...pushed the blue button...and voila...smooth recovery to straight and level. Nice yaw damper. Just excellent. Oh, and we did the classic descend with throttle back and level off...and then forget to add throttle. It announced it's concern by voice. Then voice and a buzzer (with an annunciation too) and when we got close to a stall...pushed the nose down and fixed the problem.

Lots of other cool stuff. If you are flying at, say, 20K feet. If you don't do something...push a button, twirl a knob, say something on the radio in a 5 minute period, a little announcement comes on the screen..."Are you alert?". You can push a button and all is well. If you don't do something, it then makes an announcement and a fairly harsh noise. If you don't push the button or something? It descends to 15K feet. Smart stuff.

Great demo.

Customer service? I called "Cirrus insurance" and received an instant quote. I talked to their finance people and they are offering a nice rate.

Oh, and if I add $100,000 deposit at the time of my order I get a position on a Cirrus Vision Jet.Hmmm.

My wife likes the red one.

Jim

I do but thankfully hull insurance and liability for actual negligence would still exist in my ideal world.

No G5 for me - my next plane is a TBM but that's so far away hopefully it'll be an American Beechcraft single turbo-prop

Johnathan Sweatman is a great guy. Glad you flew with him. He's one of the first guys I met when I got into flying.

Glad you like the G. It's cool. Do you now see what I mean about how far ahead Cirrus is? Can anyone catch up at this point?

Jim-
There is no such thing as Cirrus Insurance - albeit Cirrus's marketing would lead you to believe they have a special 'program' with favorable insurance pricing for Cirrus owners exclusively.

I and/or my insurance counterparts on this site can tell you how that smoke and mirrors insurance quote works. Suffice it to say you aren't getting any better pricing by contacting "Cirrus Insurance".

Can't comment on what anybody else is doing, but it is a very complete airplane. Fast (enough), economical, and the fit and finish is terrific. As we were taxiing out, I commented on how nice the interior was...he allowed as to how guys who buy this airplane drive 6 figure cars. I didn't have the heart to tell him about my Prius.

But yes, I looked at Cirri a few years ago and couldn't make them work for me. This one...emphatically...does.

Jim

haha this is true

I hear you, and of course I'll shop around. On the other hand...a single-point call and I got information. One assumes it was accurate...if not best in class. I've been hunting insurance on another airplane and you'd be amazed (altho it is a fairly complex deal) how much running around I've had to do. It is not about the price. It is about seeking and finding understanding in minutes.

Jim

Exactly - the whole package, good product and excellent sales service. Hard to believe they had to be sold to raise money

Probably true, but Cirrus is lapping the field in marketing, that is conceded. People think they bought a "do over" with the chute. People think they are getting a deal on insurance because they are told so by a company called Cirrus Insurance. I bet they whisper when they talk so customers think they don't want other people to hear about the deal they are getting. Marketing...that is so far out in front..

No, just the COPA thread.

Feel free to start a thread about all the new stuff going on at Beechcraft.

Tom-
I don't disagree on the marketing aspect - but I don't think smoke and mirrors marketing is a good way to establish a solid trusting relationship with a client - especially with insurance and financing.

When it comes to finance and insurance and these 'programs' it comes right down to which insurance broker and which lender will drop their pants the furthest to secure the Cirrus brand for their firm. Meaning - who will give the most points back to Cirrus for the referrals. Frankly I think it cheapens the product that myself and my counterparts work hard to produce, service and work to establish long term relationships with our customers.

It is my opinion - but usually when a Cirrus buyer understands they are actually paying MORE for their airplane by using their finance and insurance options - they generally are displeased not knowing this upfront. My only reason for mentioning it to Jim.

No argument by me. Remember, my competitors are on TV jumping up and down in Pit Bull and Shark outfits so I can appreciate your frustration.

Tom,

Jim's description of his test flight sounds like there is more to Cirrus than smoke and mirrors. It does things new jets don't do.

Make a retract Cirrus! Hey Beech, you got to do all this and go 20kts faster with more seats!