No if there is still fuel that can be loaded when you reach ZFW. It is your max load range as opposed to your max fuel range. The chart is entirely at max weight divided between fuel and cabin.

There are a lot of assumptions hiding inside it, though, like empty weight for each type, what altitudes are used, what power settings, what reserves, what mods are applied, etc. The 501, in particular, has gross and ZFW mods which changes things in terms of weight it can carry which would move its curve up higher on the chart (more cabin load).

For KBZN to KHWD, when I run Fltplan.com numbers for 501, at FL360, I get 36 knot headwind, 2:30 time, 358 gallons. So the chart does seem pessimistic for it. The 501 is the cheapest plane in the group. Buy one with an FJ44 conversion and it will go faster and use less fuel (but cost more to get and engine costs will go up).

For KBZN to KHWD, Citation V is 2:07 flight time, 430 gallons, at max cruise and FL400. This is into a 35 knot headwind (similar to the others plotted). With an adequate reserve, I can carry 3000 lbs in the cabin doing that.

If I slow down to long range cruise, FL430, flight time is 2:12, headwinds die down to 30 knots (they do this going higher in the 40s usually), and I use 363 gallons.

People who buy a 501 instead of a V to save fuel aren't really doing that if they fly the V higher, which is reasonable given the better climb it has. I can use about the same fuel, and arrive faster, in the V as the 501. This is a very satisfying thing to know!

Mike C.

The V is priced out of bounds at the moment. I can't recommend that to anyone right now as it would take $2M to get a decent one. I should have bought a dozen of them in late 2020!

Big fuel capacity comes with big cabin. Just the nature of the beast. The Citation V is basically a 501 with a longer cabin. You have 4 more windows and a few extra seats. Otherwise, it is basically the same airplane. So the extra size really doesn't play into it that much. I don't think the tires or brakes last much differently, either. My brakes are showing very little wear and my tires have 300 landings and look pretty good still. So the extra weight isn't costing a lot, either. A 501 at 12,500 lbs versus a V at 15,900 lbs shows the weight increase isn't actually all that much, 27% more.


That's why I got a short body MU2. :-)


Big fuel capacity comes with big cabin.

The FJ44 501 (Stallion) is a pretty good choice. Medium range, fast speed, engine is taken care of with payments, lower fuel burn. They used to be right around $1M but I don't know current prices.

I find I am flying with a lot of people, more than I expected. I've only made 7 flights solo over 280 hours, had 9 people once, and 7 people a number of times. My average head count is easily up by 1 person or more over the MU2. The willingness and interest for people to fly places with me is significantly higher in the jet, and I enjoy that.


There was a change from JT15D-1A to JT15D-1B at some point in the 501 production run. I don't think that was a meaningful change in power, however.

I think the current best deal in legacy Citations is an S550 with stock engine. It is basically a V but shorter, has TKS deice, and underpowered, but will go much faster than a 501 or 550 and has major range. The TKS system is despised by much of the legacy Citation market, so you can pick them up cheap for that reason alone. Should be able to do ~380-390 knots on a good day, say at FL370 or so.

Mike C.

Not having ready every post, it seems like a C425XP is the best of all of the above options considering speed, range, size, opex/capex and I don't see it mentioned much. G600 Txi / Garmin EIS / GFC600 is as good a panel as any GA aircraft flying.

Just be aware of the cost of money and what is does to your true total cost of ownership.

It is a reality we tend to ignore and can dominate the overall economic equation for a low use owner operator.

Cost of money is quite high right now. $1.5M is about $100K per year economic impact.

Mike C.

Just be aware of the cost of money and what is does to your true total cost of ownership.

It is a reality we tend to ignore and can dominate the overall economic equation for a low use owner operator.

Cost of money is quite high right now. $1.5M is about $100K per year economic impact.

Mike C.

There isn't a "short body" option without getting on engine programs - (FJ44 converted 501, CJ1, or M2). There was apparently an STC to put the JT15D-4 engines from the 550 onto the 501 but I have never seen one in the wild.

One of our major reasons for upgrading from the SR22 was to be able to take another family on trips. Extra seating is a plus for us. During my upgrade research I looked at MU-2s (being local to IJS was a huge plus) but was seeing $950k for a well-sorted Marquise (this was back in early 2021) while the 501 was a lot cheaper. I'm still building time but I can see myself upgrading to a II in a few years as the kids (and their friends) get bigger. Though it will depend on what prices do.

The limiting factors you cite are based on time, not distance. You have a certain amount of *time* to fly. When you get the jet, you will fly more miles because you can. The actual cost of the jet will be higher per year than you'd get from calculating it just based on the number of miles you fly today.

How many pilots do you know who upgraded to a more capable plane and then flew fewer hours?

Mid way through this thread and I can't keep up with Mike and Chip's back and forth volleys, both at the net. The end keeps getting farther away. Maybe someday I'll get to the end of the thread. When I'll read this post.

And I took Evelyn Wood speed reading in high school.

Great info though. Love it.

Ouch, even after the wonderful trips we had in my Meridian?

Another saved listing price slashed. This one has damage history but still, 15%+ reduction is pretty mega.

Jason, good luck. Interesting reading in this topic and I will say, I kind of predicted where this would go, given aviation is an addiction and pulls at heartstrings so easily. My take with damage is, it should impact the overall value a little bit, BUT, if it was repaired properly, would not concern me. I used to deal with exotic and super cars and it was more common to find really old cars that have some damage (minor to major) than find pristine examples. Does that affect the price of a 1938 Bugatti? Not really. Does it affect a 2000’s Ferrari Enzo, a little. But not as much as you’d expect.

Be patient, maybe try to get some right seat time in one. Your significant other may love it or hate it.

"Right-hand wing outer section replaced"

And

"Repaired after nose gear collapse"

Don't go together.

I'd want more information about that incident.

Mike C.

The right wing probably got torqued into the ground when the blades hit the runway.

Chip-

If I'm looking at the right listing it had a runway excursion 8 years ago but can't find any details.

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/175000

Not hard to find. It's a Meridian registered out of Meridian.

"PILOT MADE A VFR APPROACH AT KSTK TO LANDING RUNWAY 33 CALM WINDS REPORTED ON AWOS, SKY WAS CLEAR WITH UNLIMITED VISIBILITY. UPON TOUCHDOWN THE AIRCRAFT VEERED HARD TO THE RIGHT AND WITH A HARD LEFT RUDDER THE PILOT COULD NOT KEEP THE AIRPLANE FROM EXITING THE RUNWAY ON THE RIGHT. AFTER TRAVELING OFF THE RUNWAY THE NOSE GEAR COLLAPSED AND AIRCRAFT CAME TO A STOP NEXT TO RUNWAY. A FLAT RIGHT MAIN GEAR TIRE WAS FOUND AND RUBBER MARKS FROM THE POINT OF TOUCH DOWN TO WHEN THE AIRCRAFT EXITED THE RUNWAY INDICATED THE RIGHT TIRE WAS FLAT ON TOUCHDOWN. THE RUBBER MARKS WERE WIDER THAN NORMAL TIRE SKID MARKS, ANOTHER INDICATION THE RIGHT TIRE WAS FLAT. NO INJURIES AND NO STRUCTURAL DAMAGE TO AIRPLANE. THIS WAS THE SECOND LANDING WITHIN 2 HOURS."