banner
banner

04 Jun 2025, 23:50 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Stevens Aerospace (Banner)



Reply to topic  [ 195 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 ... 13  Next
Username Protected Message
 Post subject: Re: Baron or Bust!
PostPosted: 11 Nov 2014, 00:04 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/19/08
Posts: 12160
Post Likes: +3541
Aircraft: C55
Greg,

First, I LOVE the Barons. I have owned 6 of them.

Next, the Brochure from Beechcraft is probably for a non-booted, no A/C, and no radar plane. Deduct about 100-200 lbs for those items.

The Baron climbs great on two engines.

What I can tell you from experience is that the twin engine plane will not make your wife any more comfortable about flying. I have spent 25 years trying to find the perfect plane - I just found it.

_________________
The kid gets it all. Just plant us in the damn garden, next to the stupid lion.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Baron or Bust!
PostPosted: 11 Nov 2014, 00:18 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 03/28/13
Posts: 196
Post Likes: +31
Location: Norwell, MA
Aircraft: Bonanza A36
Username Protected wrote:
Greg,

Of course only you will be able to determine what is best for yourself and your growing family. But todays G58's have about 1500lbs of useful load, climb about 1500fpm and have good range. I'm sure there are other older barons that likewise have good utility.
The issue of new verses used has been beaten to death I'm sure you'll figure out what makes sense for your familiy's situation. The Baron is very capable aircraft and fun to fly.

Be cautious about the idea that you can buy an old turbine that once cost millions and now that it's run out can be purchased on the cheap. Sure you can buy them cheap but you can't operate them cheap.

Best wishes

Thanks for your advice Chris. I agree and after spending the money to revive these old airplanes you wonder what you could have purchased in the end. Usually it is a newer model.
Old is good but new is better.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Baron or Bust!
PostPosted: 11 Nov 2014, 00:22 
Offline



User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 06/28/09
Posts: 14379
Post Likes: +9509
Location: Walnut Creek, CA (KCCR)
Aircraft: 1962 Twin Bonanza
Username Protected wrote:
What I can tell you from experience is that the twin engine plane will not make your wife any more comfortable about flying.


My wife is much, much more comfortable in the twin. :shrug:

_________________
http://calipilot.com
atp/cfii


Top

 Post subject: Re: Baron or Bust!
PostPosted: 11 Nov 2014, 00:25 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/16/11
Posts: 11068
Post Likes: +7095
Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Aircraft: PC12NG, G3Tat
Username Protected wrote:
What I can tell you from experience is that the twin engine plane will not make your wife any more comfortable about flying.


My wife is much, much more comfortable in the twin. :shrug:


Second that.

Also, no way that a twin turbine is gonna be the same per mile as a baron. Don't even let people take you down that path. It's 3 times the cost to operate a twin turbine over a baron.
_________________
---Rusty Shoe Keeper---


Top

 Post subject: Re: Baron or Bust!
PostPosted: 11 Nov 2014, 00:32 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/16/11
Posts: 11068
Post Likes: +7095
Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Aircraft: PC12NG, G3Tat
Username Protected wrote:
On takeoff if I lose the engine in the Bonanza I would have to put her down, with a Baron I would just fly away.

Oh wow. I didn't know it was so easy. I wonder why prop twins crash so regularly then?


Little rudder, trim it out, keep the autopilot on, smoke a cigar, pat yourself on the back, not an issue.

Show me that stat on the twins crashing regularly?

Now singles......basically compare them to Nitroglycerin. Especially them Swiss Turbines, can't keep them in the sky. Now the Cirrus, safest single ever made. And it's composite, so you don't need a hangar.
_________________
---Rusty Shoe Keeper---


Top

 Post subject: Re: Baron or Bust!
PostPosted: 11 Nov 2014, 00:44 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 05/29/09
Posts: 4166
Post Likes: +2987
Company: Craft Air Services, LLC
Location: Hertford, NC
Aircraft: D50A
Username Protected wrote:
Be cautious about the idea that you can buy an old turbine that once cost millions and now that it's run out can be purchased on the cheap. Sure you can buy them cheap but you can't operate them cheap.

Best wishes


You might not be able to operate them "cheap", but give me a $600K budget and I'll get you a C-90 and several years of service before we need to go back to the well.

_________________
Who is John Galt?


Top

 Post subject: Re: Baron or Bust!
PostPosted: 11 Nov 2014, 00:50 
Offline



User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 06/28/09
Posts: 14379
Post Likes: +9509
Location: Walnut Creek, CA (KCCR)
Aircraft: 1962 Twin Bonanza
Username Protected wrote:
You might not be able to operate them "cheap", but give me a $600K budget and I'll get you a C-90 and several years of service before we need to go back to the well.


I don't buy it... unless you want to throw 100k+ per year operating that sucker not including upgrades don't even think about it. OTOH just finished a $4800 annual on my Baron. That ain't happening in a KA.

_________________
http://calipilot.com
atp/cfii


Top

 Post subject: Re: Baron or Bust!
PostPosted: 11 Nov 2014, 01:00 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 01/29/09
Posts: 1770
Post Likes: +533
Location: KCRS
Username Protected wrote:

G58 with boots, Radar, and De-Ice with 1500 lbs useful? I have never seen one.



Well, I don't know what to say about that Todd. I just flew 5013E, a 2014 G58, and it has boots, radar, de-ice and it's useful is 1500#.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Baron or Bust!
PostPosted: 11 Nov 2014, 01:04 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 05/29/09
Posts: 4166
Post Likes: +2987
Company: Craft Air Services, LLC
Location: Hertford, NC
Aircraft: D50A
Username Protected wrote:
You might not be able to operate them "cheap", but give me a $600K budget and I'll get you a C-90 and several years of service before we need to go back to the well.


I don't buy it... unless you want to throw 100k+ per year operating that sucker not including upgrades don't even think about it. OTOH just finished a $4800 annual on my Baron. That ain't happening in a KA.



I've seen some nice looking -21 powered 90s priced in the 300s that get two phase inspections for $10K each year. There are also plenty of people getting $4.xx jet A with discount cards. Even if you did spend $100K per year operating it, so what? Pay $300K, run it for three years and you are at your original budget. The 58 isn't going to operate for free, so keep that in mind as well.

Forget about the upgrades. Steam gauges work fine and subscriptions are the same cost for a KA as a 58.

If you really wanted to operate a lot of airplane on a little money, there was that F model MU-2 on here a while back for $350K. It looked beautiful and had lots of time left on the engines and a glass panel. Those engines sip fuel are relatively cheap to work on and are really fast on that airframe. Great short field performance as well. If you shook $300K at them, you better have a ferry pilot on speed dial.

Of course, half a million dollar 58s need love too, right?
_________________
Who is John Galt?


Top

 Post subject: Re: Baron or Bust!
PostPosted: 11 Nov 2014, 01:10 
Offline



User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 06/28/09
Posts: 14379
Post Likes: +9509
Location: Walnut Creek, CA (KCCR)
Aircraft: 1962 Twin Bonanza
The 58 needs 30k a year of love, the clapped out KA needs 120k a year if everything goes right and uncle Vinny is the IA.

_________________
http://calipilot.com
atp/cfii


Top

 Post subject: Re: Baron or Bust!
PostPosted: 11 Nov 2014, 01:24 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 05/29/09
Posts: 4166
Post Likes: +2987
Company: Craft Air Services, LLC
Location: Hertford, NC
Aircraft: D50A
Username Protected wrote:
The 58 needs 30k a year of love, the clapped out KA needs 120k a year if everything goes right and uncle Vinny is the IA.


It always matters who does the maintenance. If you buy a $600K 58 and toss the keys to a factory service center type establishment and I buy a $300K C-90 and use the same guys I have been using for years, I bet you would be surprised at how closely our bills wind up on a per NM basis. It would take a long time until I had spent more total dollars than you.

Now if we reverse shops, the outcome would be so skewed as to drop jaws.

When I got rid of R-1340 engines in favor of PT6As, everyone said they would break me. A fellow just couldn't afford all of those $50K hot sections and $200K overhauls. Those folks were dead wrong. They were just repeating the same old OWTs that are so fun to spout off. The story of some hapless guy who spends a quarter million dollars on double hots gets repeated for years. No one is interested in hearing about the $1500 hot sections that we do every year. Those stories are boring.

_________________
Who is John Galt?


Top

 Post subject: Re: Baron or Bust!
PostPosted: 11 Nov 2014, 02:45 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/17/13
Posts: 6652
Post Likes: +5957
Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Aerostar Superstar 2
Yeah, Dave Siciliano says he operates his C90 with old engines for about $50K a year. That's what an high end piston twin can cost in no time. Sure, they're cheaper many years, but spread over TBO I'm not so sure they are. They never make TBO without at least some top end and turbo work.

_________________
Without love, where would you be now?


Top

 Post subject: Re: Baron or Bust!
PostPosted: 11 Nov 2014, 04:52 
Offline



User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 02/14/09
Posts: 6068
Post Likes: +3328
Company: tomdrew.lawyer
Location: Des Moines, IA (KDSM)
Aircraft: 1973 Baron E55
Username Protected wrote:
Greg,

What I can tell you from experience is that the twin engine plane will not make your wife any more comfortable about flying. I have spent 25 years trying to find the perfect plane - I just found it.


I would put this differently. A twin will make a typical wife hate flying a "little" less.

_________________
C340A/8KCAB/T182T
F33C/E55/B58
PA 28/32
Currency 12 M: IPC/BFR, CFII Renewal


Top

 Post subject: Re: Baron or Bust!
PostPosted: 11 Nov 2014, 07:40 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/29/08
Posts: 26338
Post Likes: +13080
Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
Username Protected wrote:
Jason,
She only reads about the singles that crash, they are more frequent and JFK JR didn't help us.

No they're not more frequent. You can't lump all the trainer Cessna's in with the rest of us.

JFK JR didn't have an "engine out". His plane worked great all the way to the crash.

"Engine Out" is way down on the list of things that will kill you in an airplane.

I'd research this more if I were you.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Baron or Bust!
PostPosted: 11 Nov 2014, 07:44 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/29/08
Posts: 26338
Post Likes: +13080
Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
Username Protected wrote:

Jason,

How much is a little? Most of what I see are over 1.5m. Would seriously like to know if there are Mustangs out there for less than 1.5m.

Regards,

Mark

There are 21 on Controller. You gotta start working the phones.

Mustang is a great buy because you'll sell it for what you have in it at this point. At $1.5 + it's a ton of bang for the buck. This will not be the case in a Million $$ Baron.


Top

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 195 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 ... 13  Next



B-Kool (Top/Bottom Banner)

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us

BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner, Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.

BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates. Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.

Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2025

.SCA.jpg.
.bullardaviation-85x50-2.jpg.
.camguard.jpg.
.blackwell-85x50.png.
.Wentworth_85x100.JPG.
.jandsaviation-85x50.jpg.
.rnp.85x50.png.
.CiESVer2.jpg.
.saint-85x50.jpg.
.mcfarlane-85x50.png.
.b-kool-85x50.png.
.holymicro-85x50.jpg.
.concorde.jpg.
.geebee-85x50.jpg.
.gallagher_85x50.jpg.
.stanmusikame-85x50.jpg.
.centex-85x50.jpg.
.Latitude.jpg.
.Elite-85x50.png.
.KingAirMaint85_50.png.
.kadex-85x50.jpg.
.blackhawk-85x100-2019-09-25.jpg.
.ssv-85x50-2023-12-17.jpg.
.ocraviation-85x50.png.
.shortnnumbers-85x100.png.
.midwest2.jpg.
.traceaviation-85x150.png.
.wat-85x50.jpg.
.aviationdesigndouble.jpg.
.Wingman 85x50.png.
.dbm.jpg.
.performanceaero-85x50.jpg.
.puremedical-85x200.jpg.
.pdi-85x50.jpg.
.tempest.jpg.
.kingairnation-85x50.png.
.MountainAirframe.jpg.
.bpt-85x50-2019-07-27.jpg.
.jetacq-85x50.jpg.
.daytona.jpg.
.KalAir_Black.jpg.
.wilco-85x100.png.
.boomerang-85x50-2023-12-17.png.
.sierratrax-85x50.png.
.tat-85x100.png.
.garmin-85x200-2021-11-22.jpg.
.ABS-85x100.jpg.
.headsetsetc_Small_85x50.jpg.
.aerox_85x100.png.
.planelogix-85x100-2015-04-15.jpg.
.temple-85x100-2015-02-23.jpg.
.airmart-85x150.png.