04 Jun 2025, 23:50 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Baron or Bust! Posted: 11 Nov 2014, 00:18 |
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Joined: 03/28/13 Posts: 196 Post Likes: +31 Location: Norwell, MA
Aircraft: Bonanza A36
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Username Protected wrote: Greg,
Of course only you will be able to determine what is best for yourself and your growing family. But todays G58's have about 1500lbs of useful load, climb about 1500fpm and have good range. I'm sure there are other older barons that likewise have good utility. The issue of new verses used has been beaten to death I'm sure you'll figure out what makes sense for your familiy's situation. The Baron is very capable aircraft and fun to fly.
Be cautious about the idea that you can buy an old turbine that once cost millions and now that it's run out can be purchased on the cheap. Sure you can buy them cheap but you can't operate them cheap.
Best wishes Thanks for your advice Chris. I agree and after spending the money to revive these old airplanes you wonder what you could have purchased in the end. Usually it is a newer model. Old is good but new is better.
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Post subject: Re: Baron or Bust! Posted: 11 Nov 2014, 00:25 |
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Joined: 01/16/11 Posts: 11068 Post Likes: +7095 Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Aircraft: PC12NG, G3Tat
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Username Protected wrote: What I can tell you from experience is that the twin engine plane will not make your wife any more comfortable about flying. My wife is much, much more comfortable in the twin. 
Second that.
Also, no way that a twin turbine is gonna be the same per mile as a baron. Don't even let people take you down that path. It's 3 times the cost to operate a twin turbine over a baron.
_________________ ---Rusty Shoe Keeper---
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Post subject: Re: Baron or Bust! Posted: 11 Nov 2014, 00:32 |
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Joined: 01/16/11 Posts: 11068 Post Likes: +7095 Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Aircraft: PC12NG, G3Tat
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Username Protected wrote: On takeoff if I lose the engine in the Bonanza I would have to put her down, with a Baron I would just fly away.
Oh wow. I didn't know it was so easy. I wonder why prop twins crash so regularly then?
Little rudder, trim it out, keep the autopilot on, smoke a cigar, pat yourself on the back, not an issue.
Show me that stat on the twins crashing regularly?
Now singles......basically compare them to Nitroglycerin. Especially them Swiss Turbines, can't keep them in the sky. Now the Cirrus, safest single ever made. And it's composite, so you don't need a hangar.
_________________ ---Rusty Shoe Keeper---
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Post subject: Re: Baron or Bust! Posted: 11 Nov 2014, 00:44 |
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Joined: 05/29/09 Posts: 4166 Post Likes: +2987 Company: Craft Air Services, LLC Location: Hertford, NC
Aircraft: D50A
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Username Protected wrote: Be cautious about the idea that you can buy an old turbine that once cost millions and now that it's run out can be purchased on the cheap. Sure you can buy them cheap but you can't operate them cheap.
Best wishes You might not be able to operate them "cheap", but give me a $600K budget and I'll get you a C-90 and several years of service before we need to go back to the well.
_________________ Who is John Galt?
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Post subject: Re: Baron or Bust! Posted: 11 Nov 2014, 00:50 |
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Joined: 06/28/09 Posts: 14379 Post Likes: +9509 Location: Walnut Creek, CA (KCCR)
Aircraft: 1962 Twin Bonanza
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Username Protected wrote: You might not be able to operate them "cheap", but give me a $600K budget and I'll get you a C-90 and several years of service before we need to go back to the well. I don't buy it... unless you want to throw 100k+ per year operating that sucker not including upgrades don't even think about it. OTOH just finished a $4800 annual on my Baron. That ain't happening in a KA.
_________________ http://calipilot.com atp/cfii
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Post subject: Re: Baron or Bust! Posted: 11 Nov 2014, 01:00 |
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Joined: 01/29/09 Posts: 1770 Post Likes: +533 Location: KCRS
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Username Protected wrote: G58 with boots, Radar, and De-Ice with 1500 lbs useful? I have never seen one.
Well, I don't know what to say about that Todd. I just flew 5013E, a 2014 G58, and it has boots, radar, de-ice and it's useful is 1500#.
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Post subject: Re: Baron or Bust! Posted: 11 Nov 2014, 01:04 |
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Joined: 05/29/09 Posts: 4166 Post Likes: +2987 Company: Craft Air Services, LLC Location: Hertford, NC
Aircraft: D50A
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Username Protected wrote: You might not be able to operate them "cheap", but give me a $600K budget and I'll get you a C-90 and several years of service before we need to go back to the well. I don't buy it... unless you want to throw 100k+ per year operating that sucker not including upgrades don't even think about it. OTOH just finished a $4800 annual on my Baron. That ain't happening in a KA.
I've seen some nice looking -21 powered 90s priced in the 300s that get two phase inspections for $10K each year. There are also plenty of people getting $4.xx jet A with discount cards. Even if you did spend $100K per year operating it, so what? Pay $300K, run it for three years and you are at your original budget. The 58 isn't going to operate for free, so keep that in mind as well.
Forget about the upgrades. Steam gauges work fine and subscriptions are the same cost for a KA as a 58.
If you really wanted to operate a lot of airplane on a little money, there was that F model MU-2 on here a while back for $350K. It looked beautiful and had lots of time left on the engines and a glass panel. Those engines sip fuel are relatively cheap to work on and are really fast on that airframe. Great short field performance as well. If you shook $300K at them, you better have a ferry pilot on speed dial.
Of course, half a million dollar 58s need love too, right?
_________________ Who is John Galt?
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Post subject: Re: Baron or Bust! Posted: 11 Nov 2014, 01:24 |
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Joined: 05/29/09 Posts: 4166 Post Likes: +2987 Company: Craft Air Services, LLC Location: Hertford, NC
Aircraft: D50A
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Username Protected wrote: The 58 needs 30k a year of love, the clapped out KA needs 120k a year if everything goes right and uncle Vinny is the IA. It always matters who does the maintenance. If you buy a $600K 58 and toss the keys to a factory service center type establishment and I buy a $300K C-90 and use the same guys I have been using for years, I bet you would be surprised at how closely our bills wind up on a per NM basis. It would take a long time until I had spent more total dollars than you. Now if we reverse shops, the outcome would be so skewed as to drop jaws. When I got rid of R-1340 engines in favor of PT6As, everyone said they would break me. A fellow just couldn't afford all of those $50K hot sections and $200K overhauls. Those folks were dead wrong. They were just repeating the same old OWTs that are so fun to spout off. The story of some hapless guy who spends a quarter million dollars on double hots gets repeated for years. No one is interested in hearing about the $1500 hot sections that we do every year. Those stories are boring.
_________________ Who is John Galt?
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Post subject: Re: Baron or Bust! Posted: 11 Nov 2014, 04:52 |
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Joined: 02/14/09 Posts: 6068 Post Likes: +3328 Company: tomdrew.lawyer Location: Des Moines, IA (KDSM)
Aircraft: 1973 Baron E55
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Username Protected wrote: Greg,
What I can tell you from experience is that the twin engine plane will not make your wife any more comfortable about flying. I have spent 25 years trying to find the perfect plane - I just found it. I would put this differently. A twin will make a typical wife hate flying a "little" less.
_________________ C340A/8KCAB/T182T F33C/E55/B58 PA 28/32 Currency 12 M: IPC/BFR, CFII Renewal
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Post subject: Re: Baron or Bust! Posted: 11 Nov 2014, 07:40 |
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Joined: 01/29/08 Posts: 26338 Post Likes: +13080 Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: Jason, She only reads about the singles that crash, they are more frequent and JFK JR didn't help us. No they're not more frequent. You can't lump all the trainer Cessna's in with the rest of us. JFK JR didn't have an "engine out". His plane worked great all the way to the crash. "Engine Out" is way down on the list of things that will kill you in an airplane. I'd research this more if I were you.
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Post subject: Re: Baron or Bust! Posted: 11 Nov 2014, 07:44 |
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Joined: 01/29/08 Posts: 26338 Post Likes: +13080 Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: Jason,
How much is a little? Most of what I see are over 1.5m. Would seriously like to know if there are Mustangs out there for less than 1.5m.
Regards,
Mark
There are 21 on Controller. You gotta start working the phones. Mustang is a great buy because you'll sell it for what you have in it at this point. At $1.5 + it's a ton of bang for the buck. This will not be the case in a Million $$ Baron.
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