The Cirrus Vision Jet is going to tell us a lot about what this Market. Their conforming prototype is very close to first flight...

I do not know of one Rutan designed that was a commercial success?
Starship?
Visionaire Vantage? ( have some stock in that company if you need toilet paper)
Adam 500?
Ares fighter?
Griz Bush plane?
ATTT transport?
etc, etc...

I am taking nothing away from Rutan, I think he is one of the most visionary and transformational designers in Aviation history...

Rutan has the skill to design aircraft that can do the undoable. And he has proven that repeatedly. The problem is buyers and investors like the tried and true. I would not invest in a company trying to build and sell a Rutan aircraft designs...

Name an aircraft company that has been successful with a revolutionary design? The airplane Gerry proposes is evolutionary, and that is promising. I agree there are evolutionary technologies that could be incorporated into an airplane between the Evolution (interesting name choice?) and the Epic that could attractive to the market...

But for me, and my mission, if i had the money, I would replace my Baron with an Evolution. Simply an amazing airplane...

I do not know of one Rutan designed that was a commercial success?
Starship?
Visionaire Vantage? ( have some stock in that company if you need toilet paper)
Adam 500?
Ares fighter?
Griz Bush plane?
ATTT transport?
etc, etc...

I am taking nothing away from Rutan, I think he is one of the most visionary and transformational designers in Aviation history...

Rutan has the skill to design aircraft that can do the undoable. And he has proven that repeatedly. The problem is buyers and investors like the tried and true. I would not invest in a company trying to build and sell a Rutan aircraft designs...

Name an aircraft company that has been successful with a revolutionary design? The airplane Gerry proposes is evolutionary, and that is promising. I agree there are evolutionary technologies that could be incorporated into an airplane between the Evolution (interesting name choice?) and the Epic that could attractive to the market...

But for me, and my mission, if i had the money, I would replace my Baron with an Evolution. Simply an amazing airplane...

Am I the only one in this thread that looked at this Aerostar? Tim, whats the skinny on this thing? you gotta know...right?!!!! Looks really good on paper.....As far as experimentals....

Am I the only one in this thread that looked at this Aerostar? Tim, whats the skinny on this thing? you gotta know...right?!!!! Looks really good on paper.....As far as experimentals....

Exhibition category

It is stunning. It is the prettiest paint, interior and panel I've seen on an Aerostar.

Ken Bacon wrote an article in the Spring AOA "Log" about the plane and his flight in it. Apparently there is also an article in "Twin and Turbine". According to Ken's article it cruises at 265 KTAS at 38 GPH which gives it a 5 hour range. It's a four person, bags and full fuel airplane. Ken reported that the plane floats a lot more than a typical Aerostar, on landing, because of the increased lift from the removal of the engines from the wings. There are couple of idiosyncrasies in take off and landing from a typical Aerostar but otherwise flies the same. Initial climb rate was 2000 FPM.

Reading on the forums there must have been some issues with the FAA in trying to get it certified and perhaps that's why it ended up in the Exhibition category. Obviously, anyone wanting to use it as a serious transportation machine would have a problem with that.

At 265 KTAS and 38 GPH it is close to a Meridian but with more useful load and slower than a TBM. The price is attractive in comparison but its a Frankenplane and the resale value is highly dubious. If it were Experimental it would have a better chance I think.

It moot, since 1.3 MM is out of my range, but if your plane had the same numbers and 2 more useful seats, and all other things being equal like the strength of the company, (which you said was good) I would clearly take the extra space...

But all other things being equal is a big statement....

I have flown the Evolution. It is real, and it is hard to compare that to a vapor plane....

There is a small, but very real market airplane in that class, and the better the value proposition the bigger the market is... Until the next round of FAA attacks on builders for hire....

Vans selling a fly home RV-12 shows a shift and if the new certification rules allow them to build fly home RV-7-8-9-10-14's, then the whole GA market will change...

The Cirrus Vision is going to fit squarely in the market you are shooting at. It will be interesting how well that airplane goes from concept to reality.... Cirrus really understands the Customer/Marketing piece, and so far, it appears, the Chinese have been leaving Dale alone to do the right things... That might be an illusion....

Shortly after the buyout Dale told me, in person, "What a pleasure it is to work for folks that take the long view, instead of the next quarter..."

All who compete with Cirrus would do well to understand that philosophy....

My understanding is that it is not possible to STC a twin into a single, so it would require and entire recertification of the entire airplane... That's a huge undertaking, and my guess is that some of the things that were certifiable when the Aerostar was done would never pass now... But that is all rumor mill...

The Cam Air Navion went the other way, as does the twin pac on the Caravan, so that may be BS...

Am I the only one in this thread that looked at this Aerostar? Tim, whats the skinny on this thing? you gotta know...right?!!!! Looks really good on paper.....As far as experimentals....

It moot, since 1.3 MM is out of my range, but if your plane had the same numbers and 2 more useful seats, and all other things being equal like the strength of the company, (which you said was good) I would clearly take the extra space...

But all other things being equal is a big statement....

I have flown the Evolution. It is real, and it is hard to compare that to a vapor plane....

There is a small, but very real market airplane in that class, and the better the value proposition the bigger the market is... Until the next round of FAA attacks on builders for hire....

Vans selling a fly home RV-12 shows a shift and if the new certification rules allow them to build fly home RV-7-8-9-10-14's, then the whole GA market will change...

The Cirrus Vision is going to fit squarely in the market you are shooting at. It will be interesting how well that airplane goes from concept to reality.... Cirrus really understands the Customer/Marketing piece, and so far, it appears, the Chinese have been leaving Dale alone to do the right things... That might be an illusion....

Shortly after the buyout Dale told me, in person, "What a pleasure it is to work for folks that take the long view, instead of the next quarter..."

All who compete with Cirrus would do well to understand that philosophy....

Am I the only one in this thread that looked at this Aerostar? Tim, whats the skinny on this thing? you gotta know...right?!!!! Looks really good on paper.....As far as experimentals....[/quote]

Tommy,

This was done as a one off project by Oscar T. He has owned Aerostars for a very long time. He is selling this one and has started on this next project. Oscar's next project will be a twin engined Aerostar based on medium size PT6 engines. With the gross weight increases, and a few other tweaks he figures the weight savings will pencil out to a 1000lb fuel full load, 300 gallons of Jet-A and a KTAS of 320+ at FL250.
Note: Oscar is in the late 70s and does these things for fun.

Tim[/quote]

He (Oscar) might be late to the game on that.... Ted Smith Aircraft has one in AOPA last month (pathetic UL full of fuel though). Ever since seeing yours at Max's gig last year.....I have been doing my homework on these things. Quite the airframe!!!!! You related to the current owners? One, Steve, has your same last name.

Tommy,

You are referencing the jet powered Aerostar by Aerostar Aircraft Corp (AAC). A very cool airplane, lots of videos on it on youtube.com I missed the convention where they took it flying. sad:

Oscar is doing a twin turboprop. I am not related to him and do not know any of his relatives (that I know of).

Tim

Gerry
I know a little about the Epic LT, specifically N410LT, as I helped my brother build his
for a few weeks. He was the first one out after reorganization. Get in touch if you are serious about talking to owners. You could also try to get to Doug King at Epic. I believe all positions for Experimental have been taken, and the company is going to certification.

When we started the selection process, Epic had planned to produce an Experimental Cat. called the Escape...a touch smaller with a smaller turbine, AIR. I have no idea if that is even in anyone's imagination any more.

What does your brother think of the Epic?

The Escape, I believe, was sold to a Chinese company and they are going to produce it soon, but as a 6 seat. I do sometimes wonder why they decided to not produce it. I noticed on their website that they originally intended to sell it for $1.2m so that sort of confirms to me that our pricing is doable.