Extra legroom…

This is where the old jet demographic often ends up

Now we want to mix in contract pilots, in most flight risk tools there is a penalty for using contract and for a reason, and this point none of these jets are going to be the same with all the different panels and mods and mx issues, so tossing a conveyor belt of random dudes every flight into your plane to fly your kids around is iffy at best.

The biggest factor for safety and performance is the pilot, full stop, if you’re single pilot even more so

Now mangement companies, most are really really bad, they mark up the pilots pay and collect their fee, maybe provide a hangar which they also mark up, they are not going to be treating your plane or endless carousel of contract pilots very well and this will be reflected in your AOG events, safety events in flight, and monthly bills

This isn’t true for all mangement companies, but it’s pretty much true for 95% of them

“lo barato sale caro”

If someone can’t afford low six figures a year for a pilot/manager who they personally know, and who personally knows the owner, plane, local area, etc, one can’t afford the plane in the first place and should look into a partnership with some folks who can afford that

Or look into a less expensive aircraft like a king air or something


But again, the trying to be cheap demographic of who buys cheap jets often always ends up in this same spot

There are places you can save money, like using smaller airports, and there are places you don’t want to be cheap like maintenance, and places you’re a straight fool to be cheap like pilots.

I mentioned this earlier, and I’ll say it again (and agree with Corey): the OP, as a non pilot owner, doesn’t want to be searching around for contract pilots. Hire a manager (monthly fee) to handle all of that stuff. You just call the manager and say “we’re going to FL on Friday” and they take care of the rest.

Robert

I realize the data doesn’t exist, but it would be fascinating to know how many active 61.58s there are for each type.

Robert

Love the 441, but it is not easy finding well trained contract pilots for them.

Robert

Let’s say your preferred plane will make your trip nonstop all but once a year, during the worst storm.

The plane that will make the trip through the nasty headwinds without stopping costs $500k more.

If you need to refuel once a year, but the plane that costs $500k more will make the trip nonstop, then avoiding that stop costs you $50k a pop for your first ten years.

Maybe that’s worth it, and maybe not, but it’s something to consider.

Often buying a plane that will go nonstop for 100% of your missions is much more expensive than buying one for 98% of your missions.

those type rating totals do not show how many active and current pilots for each category are out there.

I have found a lot of guys that hold a CE-500 type but not current. Not a big deal but it does take more time and cost to get a guy trained and current than if they are already current.

Way more 525 dry lease and charters going on than 500. in my market I can find a 525 guy super easy.

That being said if you are an owner non pilot you really need a full time manager pilot. It's a part time job keeping up with an aircraft.

Mike

I can tell you there are a LOT of CE-500 programs out there, sim and in airplane, and they are booked solid.

I have to book mine a year in advance.

My initial CE-500 class at Flightsafety had *9* students. The sim was in operation 20 of the 24 hours of the day. I was lucky to get the 6pm to 10pm slot. The guys with the 10pm to 2am slot weren't so lucky, nor the 6am to 10am guys, either.

Mike C.

Same with MU2 and Commanders.

That is one reason I got a Citation, being able to hire pilots to fly it if I need to.

Mike C.

I have a CE500 type rating but have not flown one since 1998.

Jim,

Thats assuming 100% real depreciation. After 10 years the plane is not worth Zero. In fact it's possible the $500K more aircraft holds its value better then the cheaper one. I never got calls to sell my 421. I get 2 a week on my Citation. BTW- I hate those guys. LOL

Like most aircraft purchases there are a lot of variables.

Mike

Only 2 a week? I'm at 3 to 4 per day. Most are stupid brokers looking for "off market" deals. What an annoyance. My usual practice is to say something like "hang on, let me get the right person for this" and put them on hold. Some will hang on for minutes during which time they can't be bothering anyone else.

Every now and then I get another call while the first in on hold, then I conference them together and let them talk to each other. Sometimes that goes on for minutes!

Every broker then claims to have some sort of "special" method to find "off market" deals when all they do is just cold call people all the time.

If I sold my V now, I'd have flow it for free, all costs involved, since I bought it, and have money left over. So what is my engine reserve? It's presently negative, costing me less than $0 per hour.

Mike C.

Jim,

Thats assuming 100% real depreciation. After 10 years the plane is not worth Zero. In fact it's possible the $500K more aircraft holds its value better then the cheaper one. I never got calls to sell my 421. I get 2 a week on my Citation. BTW- I hate those guys. LOL

Like most aircraft purchases there are a lot of variables.

Mike

Think lots of that is 20% inflation, prices for used cars has gone up, prices for beef has gone up, building supplies, etc has gone up

One of the mistakes you can make is buying the most plane that just DOESN'T do the primary mission. You need to be sure you cover that well or the exercise will be frustrating.

On that point, way too many people look at the range figures for the type and assume the plane will do that range.

Nope.

The range figures are under ideal conditions, with no wind, with full fuel, with unabated climbs and descents, at long range cruise power settings, at max altitudes, with ideal alternates, and so forth.

Everything will take away range. Headwind. Flying at normal cruise speeds. Routing. Limited climb and descent profiles. Reduced fuel load for cabin weight. Weather requiring more reserves.

A good general rule is buy a plane with 50% more range than your primary mission. Then you primary mission will be doable close to 100% of the time.

In this case, the poster has a primary mission of Indy to KSRQ or KVNC. About 800 nm with routing. You need at least a 1200 nm plane to do that reliably, and maybe more if you take a lot of cabin payload.

The NBAA IFR range of the Mustang is 963 nm. It will end up not doing that trip non stop some number of times. A CJ1 NBAA IFR range is 1127 nm, it would be a better fit and do that flight probably 95% or better. A CJ2 is 1648 nm, so it easily does this trip non stop, but the price is quite high for those.

One of the reasons NBAA made the NBAA IFR profile was to force some sanity in the range specs for airplanes. The brochure numbers were overpromising.

I've never heard an owner say his plane had too much range. I've heard the opposite a lot.

Mike C.