It is quite redundant.

Each TXi EFIS has its own sensor package and thus they run independent of each other.

You can cross the sensors such that EFIS #1 can use #2 sensors or vice versa. You get to choose independently to do this for air data or attitude information.

EFIS #1 can be powered by the emergency bus. In this mode, the ship's battery powers the bare essentials, EFIS #1, GTN #1, audio panel, a few basic lights, and nothing else. The battery will last longer than the fuel I have left (the rule is 60 minutes, but the new stuff is so much more power efficient).

The GI 275 is completely independent with its own sensors (internal), and powered from the main bus, but has a battery pack that runs at least 60 minutes (typically does 90 minutes when I test it).

If I lost both generators, I will have 90 minutes of GI 275 and then hours of EFIS #1 and GTN #1. I'll probably have enough juice to run the gear and flaps normally at the end, too, but I can drop gear manually and land no flaps if I have to.

Still, all of the above is billions of transistors operating millions of lines of code. I'm considering putting in a basic electric turn coordinator on the EMER bus just to have *some* simple rotating chunk of metal on the panel.


I agree, but lack any means to do it that isn't illegal (like buying a jammer).

I don't really know what will happen with GPS denied.

GPS dependency is so high in aviation today that a widespread GSP failure would be hugely disruptive.

Mike C.

How much longer will VOR's be around? I have an Icom handheld that has a VOR receiver for emergency use.

A select and chosen number are being maintained for GPS denied operations.

Presumably somebody has modeled that this is "enough".

We also have secondary radar.

This fall back plan has never been widely tested.

Mike C.

I wonder what it would take to develop a GTN with RNAV capability using VOR/VOR or VOR DME.

There's also the Russian and Chinese sat nav systems. Don't some iPads and/or phones receive those signals?

More money than anyone wants to pay for it.

But you can buy a KNS-80 box that does it. That's a nice box, actually, the "GPS" of the early 90s.

Some jet class FMS systems uses DME/DME location. They range using DME to a number of stations and then compute their location. This is high end stuff, though.

If we do go down to VOR navigation, VORs are going to get crowded with traffic crossing them. I suspect the primary plan is radar vectors using secondary radar to track everybody.

In my plane, I don't have DME, all I have is VOR (and LOC/ILS). I decided DME wasn't worth installing.

My phone has the ability to track Galileo (Europe) and Glonass (Russia) systems, so I could possible navigate with that if I had to, if the problem is GPS specific. Most modern phones can do this these days. Some can do Beidou (China) as well.

Of course, for the military exercises, they probably jam all the GNSS systems, but that's at least intentional.

Mike C.

I’ve encountered a few GPS disruptions in the Mustang. They were all the result of military activity. While it gets your top attention, it’s not too crazy. Things tend to drop off one by one. GPS 1&2, ADS-B 1&2, synthetic vision, and TAWS just go away and you’re left with the old days. In cruise I advised ATC and they gave me a heading, and then I navigated VOR station to station from there. No big deal. Eventually, everything came back. One time on approach, I was already on an ILS, so it had little effect. GPS is quite reliable unless it is intentionally blocked.

Here are a couple irrefutable truths, FOR THE MONEY, the Meridian is the safest airplane on the market. That for the money part is the key phrase. No, it isn’t as safe as a Citation (assuming equivalent maintenance status and pilot proficiency). Cessna wouldn’t sell any airplanes otherwise. Unfortunately, most of us don’t have endless funds, so we buy the safest we can afford. In the under $100k per year range that is the Meridian, and only the Meridian. While not as safe as a twin turbine it can be damn safe. The 17.4:1 glide ratio, the highest of all non-gliders, is your backup plan. It’s just a different way of mitigating risk. Instead of practicing V1 cuts you practice dead stick landings from altitude. They’re both fun to train for, but you’re hoping to avoid the real life circumstance.

The Meridian is dead simple to operate. Most accidents are a result of inexperienced pilots getting in over their heads. It’s a move up platform and the first introduction many pilots have to high altitude operations. It’s capability can get a pilot into situations they aren’t capable of getting out of. That’s true of all turbines, the Meridian just happens to be the one that many have their initial exposure to such flight operations in, again because it is a great move up platform.

The Meridian goes annual to annual without requiring maintenance. Your maintenance budget should be $20k per year, probably a little more if you’re honest with yourself and amortize all overhaul costs. Hangar costs aren’t bad, it has long wings, but a relatively low tail, so larger t-hangars work. Insurance is $10k-$20k depending on hull values, pilot experience. I’ve hovered around $11k-13k the past 4 years, about 3500 hours total, 2000 in turbines, $1m hull value, $2m CSL. There is a simple way of calculating fuel burn, 1# per NM, plus 100#s.

I’ve got a little under 500 hours in my Meridian. Another 500 in legacy Citations and a 1000 in CJs. I wasn’t paying the bills in the Citations and it’s been a number of years, but all the bills crossed my desk and you’re lying to yourself if you think you can operate any Citation for anywhere near less than double the cost of a comparable Meridian.

Oh and in the Meridian you can do this. Any other 1335nm flights on 800#s of fuel in under 5 hours? Post ‘em if you got ‘em, but I don’t think it’s possible in any other plane. Chuck, what do you think, is this a record in the Meridian? The whole time I kept thinking “Chuck may have the record for the M600, but I'm going to hold the record for the Meridian!” This flight was over nasty weather from California past the Rockies on Thursday, and I was comfortably cruising about 10,000’ above it all. Oh, and take a look at the takeoff and landing performance. Takeoff in 1235’, landing in 1219’. I didn’t even try for a max performance takeoff with 20%* flaps, that was 0* flaps. I also didn’t use the brakes on landing, just beta (although the winds were around 20kts pretty much down the runway). Des Moines was slightly contaminated with light snow and some patches of ice. Try that in your CJ!

And going Westbound ?

All it takes is a howling tailwind and any plane will outperform itself .

And going Westbound ?

All it takes is a howling tailwind and any plane will outperform itself .

It would be trivial. With software defined radio, I bet you could make this for less than $500 in parts from scratch.

Certification would be the most expensive part, but given how trivial this technology is to use these days, I don't think it would add more than a trivial amount to modern navigators. There's just no demand.

Can you put 7 people in a Meridian?

It would be trivial. With software defined radio, I bet you could make this for less than $500 in parts from scratch.

Certification would be the most expensive part, but given how trivial this technology is to use these days, I don't think it would add more than a trivial amount to modern navigators. There's just no demand.

Insignificant since you spend no time there. Why would you?

Mike C.

On controller.com, average asking price is $1.5M for Meridians.

You can buy and fly jets for well under that price, including paying for the fuel for a long time when you include cost of capital and higher insurance.

I think your "truth" is refutable.


Until you have an engine issue or are facing a line of storms up to FL300. Both situations are non events in a jet. Weather is primarily departure and destination thing in a jet.


Double per mile is probably about right.

I figure about $1500 per hour for my V covering 410 knots, or $3.65/nm. That would be about $450/hour for half the cost per mile for a Meridian, which seems pretty good if you can achieve that, and probably within reach.

But if you save $750K on the purchase price (which is very realistic for a 501 versus Meridian), put that in a 6% investment, that's $45K per year and that buys 10,000 gallons of fuel. That's 2/3rds of your yearly usage for a 501 flying 100 hours. Basically this makes the fuel a non issue economically since it is covered by the lower hull value. Lower hull value also lowers insurance premiums.


Meridian wins on fuel, no question, since it has the smallest engine.

Now take a family of four plus vacation baggage, say 900 lbs. Probably need a stop then, but so does the 501 (unless FJ44 upgraded).


What altitude was this at? What day was this?

Crossing the Rockies usually takes 18,000 ft to clear the rocks minimum (and that will be uncomfortable), 10,000 ft higher is FL280, so the weather was no higher than the peaks?

The dangerous weather is convection which reaches into the flight levels.


That is an issue in the CJ, though KDSM being 9000 ft probably still works fine.

For legacy Citations with TRs, not a big issue, some runway increase, but not huge. My V is absolutely phenomenal on runway usage, quite similar to the MU2 in fact. I wasn't expecting that.

Mike C.