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 Post subject: Re: 2020 PA46 M350 - Impressions
PostPosted: 11 Dec 2022, 22:49 
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84 310P TSIO520. 2 blade prop. 197TAS 15.2 GPH @FL220


Very impressive. What is the fuel burn in climb? Also for a local flight say only going up to 6500msl. What would the TAS be there?


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 PA46 M350 - Impressions
PostPosted: 12 Dec 2022, 00:15 
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Username Protected wrote:
84 310P TSIO520. 2 blade prop. 197TAS 15.2 GPH @FL220



Impressive! With 120/140 gallons of fuel, you can really travel a distance and in style.

John

Boy that really is compelling.
200true on 15gph?!
And your Temps are modest. Not even flogging the inlets like I would.
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 PA46 M350 - Impressions
PostPosted: 12 Dec 2022, 13:12 
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Joined: 02/27/08
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Location: Galveston, TX
Aircraft: Malibu PA46-310P
Username Protected wrote:
84 310P TSIO520. 2 blade prop. 197TAS 15.2 GPH @FL220


Very impressive. What is the fuel burn in climb? Also for a local flight say only going up to 6500msl. What would the TAS be there?


Fuel burn in climb is 38gph. At full gross 4100 pounds it takes about 30 minutes to get to FL230. That is flying a cruise climb speed of 128kts. 38"MP and 2600 RPM. Where these planes don't really shine on speed is down low. You gain 2.5 knots for every 1000 feet you climb. Around 6000 feet you should see about 165 kts and cruise fuel flow is the same at any altitude.
Kevin

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 Post subject: Re: 2020 PA46 M350 - Impressions
PostPosted: 12 Dec 2022, 17:58 
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Location: Ogden UT
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182ktas at FL220 seems a little underwhelming. I was under the impression that the piston PA46's were 200ktas airplanes in the 20s


The Malibu/Mirage and M350 are definitely 200+ knot aircraft in the flight levels. What the previous posters are showing on the Mirage are LOP settings which are not approved on the M350, but sure do save a lot of fuel, and probably are easier on the engine. I flew mine mostly LOP and would see 200+ KTAS at FL200. Running it ROP it would easily do the book 213 KTAS at high cruise settings. Here is LOP. Pretty darn efficient to get 202 KTAS on 16.1 gph in a 6 seat cabin class aircraft weighing 4358 lb.

edit: I was carrying some ice on the wings when I took those pictures, others would have been a few knots faster.

Attachment:
1 (7).jpeg


Attachment:
1 (8).jpeg


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 PA46 M350 - Impressions
PostPosted: 12 Dec 2022, 20:02 
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What kind of ROC do you guys see with a full load? My baron has 600 horsepower to work with and only weighs 700 pounds more at gross. Is ROC pretty lethargic, but then it shines in cruise at altitude?

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 Post subject: Re: 2020 PA46 M350 - Impressions
PostPosted: 12 Dec 2022, 20:07 
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My M350 climbed on the hot days around 500-650 FPM

Charles thanks for that picture,in the south we are usually 10-16 ISA and that makes a big difference in CHT and speed.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 PA46 M350 - Impressions
PostPosted: 12 Dec 2022, 20:18 
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Depends on your climb speed and power settings. If I am clearing terrain or climbing in ice, I fly an M350 at max power and you are around 1000 fpm. If there are no obstacles and no ice, with a cruise climb setting typically going to see around 700 fpm into the flight levels.

Here is the POH with a normal cruise climb.

These charts make my head spin, but at ISA from sea level to FL250, looks to me like 33 minutes, using 22 gallons, covering 92 nm. The climb isn't bad. In the upper part of the climb, you are crossing the ground faster while climbing, than most unpressurized turbocharged aircraft in cruise. The average climb is 758 fpm in the climb, faster down lower of course.

This is at max gross takeoff weight. If you don't need all the fuel leaving it behind improves performance. with a 1300 nm range, 900 at max cruise, you rarely need to top the tanks.

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Last edited on 12 Dec 2022, 20:22, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 2020 PA46 M350 - Impressions
PostPosted: 12 Dec 2022, 20:21 
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Username Protected wrote:
Depends on your climb speed and power settings. If I am clearing terrain or climbing in ice, I fly an M350 at max power and you are around 1000 fpm. If there are no obstacles and no ice, with a cruise climb setting typically going to see around 700 fpm into the flight levels.

Here is the POH with a normal cruise climb.

These charts make my head spin, but at ISA from sea level to FL250, looks to me like 33 minutes, using 22 gallons, covering 92 nm. The climb isn't bad. In the upper part of the climb, you are crossing the ground faster while climbing, than most unpressurized turbocharged aircraft in cruise. That average to 758 fpm in the climb, faster down lower of course.

Attachment:
1.jpg


Thank you. That’s really pretty good considering the power to weight ratio. That long wing must really help compared to the bonanzas and barons.

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 Post subject: Re: 2020 PA46 M350 - Impressions
PostPosted: 13 Dec 2022, 01:21 
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What kind of ROC do you guys see with a full load? My baron has 600 horsepower to work with and only weighs 700 pounds more at gross. Is ROC pretty lethargic, but then it shines in cruise at altitude?

I think there is a big bias toward cooling airspeed vs ROC.

The ROC would probably be sweet with 350hp at 90 knots but most probably climb more like 120 and get down the road with gentle CHT/%#$@

T

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 Post subject: Re: 2020 PA46 M350 - Impressions
PostPosted: 13 Dec 2022, 16:18 
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Username Protected wrote:
What kind of ROC do you guys see with a full load? My baron has 600 horsepower to work with and only weighs 700 pounds more at gross. Is ROC pretty lethargic, but then it shines in cruise at altitude?

I think there is a big bias toward cooling airspeed vs ROC.

The ROC would probably be sweet with 350hp at 90 knots but most probably climb more like 120 and get down the road with gentle CHT/%#$@

T



Yes, 120-130kts is a great climb airspeed. I went back and looked at my last climb to FL230. I was 38gph and 300lbs under gross. Average rate was 880 fpm. Initially just above a 1000 fpm and then tapers into the high teens as turbos start to hit critical altitude around FL190. This is with a TSIO520 and two blade prop. I generally true about 198kts at 15.5 above Fl220. If I want to run MP31 instead of 29 I can true about 203kts. Useable load is 1452.
Kevin

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 Post subject: Re: 2020 PA46 M350 - Impressions
PostPosted: 17 Dec 2022, 04:28 
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These charts make my head spin,

Attachment:
1.jpg


+1 !

You would think that someone could just code these charts into a simple app, just plug in your variables and Voila , out comes your results !

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 Post subject: Re: 2020 PA46 M350 - Impressions
PostPosted: 17 Dec 2022, 16:35 
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These charts make my head spin,

Attachment:
1.jpg


+1 !

You would think that someone could just code these charts into a simple app, just plug in your variables and Voila , out comes your results !

Foreflight Performance Plus does a nice job of this if your plane is supported. I'm usually spot on the time/fuel for trips with a -5% bias in the cruise performance (TKS). T/O and landing distances are book accounting for weight, slope, temp, and wind.
https://www.foreflight.com/products/per ... /#/Piston/
-dan

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 Post subject: Re: 2020 PA46 M350 - Impressions
PostPosted: 20 Oct 2023, 02:39 
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Here is a photo from FL 220


Living the dream!

Amazing!

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 Post subject: Re: 2020 PA46 M350 - Impressions
PostPosted: 24 Oct 2023, 17:47 
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Aircraft: Columbia 400
At FL220 at 30.5” and 15.5 ~ 16 gph I see about 153 IAS. My plane has a TSIO550C , which was originally designed as an upgrade STC for the PA46 with the 520.

Mine isn’t pressurized though. Full mask at that altitude for me.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 PA46 M350 - Impressions
PostPosted: 24 Oct 2023, 18:09 
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Larry
Are you ROP or LOP?

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