BeechTalk - BT - Oshkosh

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Aug 2018, 14:59

Username Protected wrote:

The GE Catalyst, as I recall, is shooting for 20% better efficiency, on-condition maintenance (no HSI required), and 4k TBO.

Pratt unveils new 2000SHP PT6 for the SUPER PC12
http://aviationweek.com/nbaa-2017/pwc-o ... wth-engine

Quote:

“It is something we have been working on for a while and been running in a test cell. I can’t tell you where it is going to go – but we are very happy with the progress so far,” Kanellias adds. According to industry sources, however, the engine is targeted at several next-generation turboprop applications, including a larger Pilatus PC-12NG follow-on and a more powerful derivative of the Daher TBM900 family. Commenting earlier this year at the Heli-Expo event in Texas, P&WC president John Saabas also said a “Super PC-12 or a bigger King Air” would benefit from such an engine.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Aug 2018, 15:54

Good data point! Wow.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Aug 2018, 21:47

Username Protected wrote:

Of course it's "me too" and not much more. Pilatus is coming into their turf with the PC24, so they're responding in kind. They're just competing for that same customer, and they only need to be slightly better at same or less cost to compete. Honda makes an Accord does that mean Toyota is wasting time with the Camry?

Then the flip side to that argument is Pilatus will have a competitor ready to go that smokes the Denali if that's all that Cessna brings.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 11 Aug 2018, 06:55

Username Protected wrote:

'
I was kind of hoping they'd just build a clone with Garmin avionics and compete on price. At 5.3m the Swiss are pretty proud of that plane.

Yeah but considering Pilatus has been building the PC12 for 24 years I think they know what needs to be done to "get more out of it" easily.

No matter what Denali is..... Pilatus is going to step up to make sure nobody buys one.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 11 Aug 2018, 11:54

If you’re coming into someone’s turf you really need to make it a better performer (like the pc24 has done). I’m sure the Denali will outperform the PC-12NG. The question is how much.

Citation and Phenom are going to have to answer the pc24 if they want to remain competitive in the high end single pilot jet market. A derivative of the 300 could probably do it. A CJ5 would need to be more clean sheet as the cross section, avionics and wing all need to be addressed.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 12 Aug 2018, 14:03

Im sure they will do so not to loose market share, Daher or Pilatus will only use a bigger engine if it will take less fuel as they dont want to increase the fuel load. They probably told Pratt to hold off on the announcement as when their planes are ready.
Pratt already said too much about the new Super TBM and DAher is very tight lip.

The SETP can use another player as its taking the buyers away from KA and other twins.

Username Protected wrote:

'
I was kind of hoping they'd just build a clone with Garmin avionics and compete on price. At 5.3m the Swiss are pretty proud of that plane.

Yeah but considering Pilatus has been building the PC12 for 24 years I think they know what needs to be done to "get more out of it" easily.

No matter what Denali is..... Pilatus is going to step up to make sure nobody buys one.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 12 Aug 2018, 15:27

Username Protected wrote:

Im sure they will do so not to loose market share, Daher or Pilatus will only use a bigger engine if it will take less fuel as they dont want to increase the fuel load. They probably told Pratt to hold off on the announcement as when their planes are ready.
Pratt already said too much about the new Super TBM and DAher is very tight lip.

If they can get the cruise speed up to 350 or more with similar range Daher would have a home run. I want one.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 12 Aug 2018, 18:05

Username Protected wrote:

'
I was kind of hoping they'd just build a clone with Garmin avionics and compete on price. At 5.3m the Swiss are pretty proud of that plane.

Yeah but considering Pilatus has been building the PC12 for 24 years I think they know what needs to be done to "get more out of it" easily.

No matter what Denali is..... Pilatus is going to step up to make sure nobody buys one.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 12 Aug 2018, 23:27

I don’t see 320 knots with one fan up front. It’s taking two -67 engines and two five blade props to make a King Air go that fast. Even if it’s slicker, you are getting into the level of diminishing returns.

Is it going to be slicker / smaller than a a Cheyenne 400LS? Two big motors and two huge props.

I don’t think they are worried about competing / beating Pilatus... I think they want to replace the King Air 90 and maybe the 250.

I could write a dissertation about their lack of understanding of branding and marketing... but its all about the numbers for them.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Aug 2018, 01:01

Quote:

I don’t think they are worried about competing / beating Pilatus

If that is true, then Textron is crazy. That would be like some car company deciding to make a pickup but not worrying about competing with Ford or GM.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Aug 2018, 08:09

An updated KA350 from Textron would be the plane to beat period if they'd put some effort into it.. I love the speed of the Blackhawk mod but don't want to deal with all the other shortcomings of the current 350.

As for speed..... it's all about HP v. Drag. That second engine on the KA produces almost as much drag as it does thrust. If you read my post above about Pratts new 2000HP Turboprop motor you'll see the problem is being worked on. Also increasing the service ceiling of the PC12 to FL350 will help too.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Aug 2018, 08:13

Username Protected wrote:

I don’t think they are worried about competing / beating Pilatus... I think they want to replace the King Air 90 and maybe the 250.

How can Textron/Beech not worry about competing with the most popular SETP in the world market ? The most popular turboprop period.... Oh, never mind..... I forgot, it is just like not worrying about competing with the most popular single engine piston in the market.

The thing they really care about are jet sales,.... but wait, now Pilatus has an incredibly capable jet.

Look at new KA 90 sales for the first half of the year; 3 units... anemic....probably at risk. But the 250.... don't see it going away.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Aug 2018, 16:19

Username Protected wrote:

I don’t think they are worried about competing / beating Pilatus... I think they want to replace the King Air 90 and maybe the 250.

The thing they really care about are jet sales,....

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Aug 2018, 17:54

Username Protected wrote:

[
I hope I'm wrong, but this is the feeling I get...

Welcome to 2008

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Aug 2018, 20:51

I think Denali will be a very successful project , don't forget a lot of PC12 owns the Government , Army, UN ... they will buy Textron product . Also Cessna parts will be more available and cheaper. As soon as the Textron has established Denali production, we will see a lot of PC12 for sale .

Oshkosh - any Cessna SETP news ?