BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Jan 2016, 13:35

Username Protected wrote:

Quick data point fwiw, yesterday in the CJ2 I flew out to Marsh Harbor and back in the 20's (could not get higher), 253 nm as the crow flies. Vfr weather so no delays. Burned 2,250 lbs round trip. That's 1.5 nm per gallon. Just sayin.

I am surprised at that fuel burn. 253 nm is about the distance from KDXR to KIAD or KBOS. I do that flight using around 1000 lbs of fuel. Fltplan.com says fuel burn should be around 1150 lbs at FL220.

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Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Jan 2016, 13:45

Username Protected wrote:

Quick data point fwiw, yesterday in the CJ2 I flew out to Marsh Harbor and back in the 20's (could not get higher), 253 nm as the crow flies. Vfr weather so no delays. Burned 2,250 lbs round trip. That's 1.5 nm per gallon. Just sayin.

I am surprised at that fuel burn. 253 nm is about the distance from KDXR to KIAD or KBOS. I do that flight using around 1000 lbs of fuel. Fltplan.com says fuel burn should be around 1150 lbs at FL220.

Attachment:

2016-01-08_1231.png

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Jan 2016, 13:48

Username Protected wrote:

I am surprised at that fuel burn. 253 nm is about the distance from KDXR to KIAD or KBOS. I do that flight using around 1000 lbs of fuel. Fltplan.com says fuel burn should be around 1150 lbs at FL220.

Attachment:

2016-01-08_1231.png

Pilatus does it on 500LBs. Just for comparison. 1000lbs round trip.

Can't figure out how to get the picture to post.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Jan 2016, 14:00

Username Protected wrote:

I am surprised at that fuel burn. 253 nm is about the distance from KDXR to KIAD or KBOS. I do that flight using around 1000 lbs of fuel. Fltplan.com says fuel burn should be around 1150 lbs at FL220.

Attachment:

2016-01-08_1231.png

That looks right, His example was round trip.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Jan 2016, 14:09

Username Protected wrote:

A compromise would be a C560 Citation V. You can put the G600/GTN750 package in it. CJ3 performance for $1.5 million. Higher fuel burn but at Jason says...cheap these days. I pay $1.90 in Scottsdale.

Low fuel cost may be a siren song that causes one to crash against the rocks financially though. Yesterday oil was $33 a barrel. What will it be during the anticipated hold period for the plane? C&D was using $6+ for JetA in their cost pro formas a year ago. That creates a much different cost picture for an old thirsty jet.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Jan 2016, 14:40

Username Protected wrote:

Is it possible to hedge fuel on a single airplane level? If you could spend 10 cents a gallon to guarantee a 10,000 gallon annual supply of JetA for 5 years that would make a thirstier plane more viable.

I think the issue is getting the fuel you "own" available in the locations you go to. Airlines can do it because they can lock in fuel supply prices in specific locations. If you wanted to do a deal with a single supplier like Shell or Avfuel maybe you could work it out. But it would only be good at certain locations. And that defeats the flexibility of GA.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Jan 2016, 14:55

Username Protected wrote:

Is it possible to hedge fuel on a single airplane level? If you could spend 10 cents a gallon to guarantee a 10,000 gallon annual supply of JetA for 5 years that would make a thirstier plane more viable.

I think the issue is getting the fuel you "own" available in the locations you go to. Airlines can do it because they can lock in fuel supply prices in specific locations. If you wanted to do a deal with a single supplier like Shell or Avfuel maybe you could work it out. But it would only be good at certain locations. And that defeats the flexibility of GA.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Jan 2016, 14:59

Username Protected wrote:

Quick data point fwiw, yesterday in the CJ2 I flew out to Marsh Harbor and back in the 20's (could not get higher), 253 nm as the crow flies. Vfr weather so no delays. Burned 2,250 lbs round trip. That's 1.5 nm per gallon.

For comparision, my Solitaire would do the round trip at FL210/220 in about 1150 lbs, or roughly half the fuel burn. 2.91nm/gal. And that is with current winds, which is something like 40-50 kt out of the west (tailwind one way, headwind the other).

That's the advantage of a turboprop, quite a bit better efficiency at lower altitudes and shorter legs.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Jan 2016, 15:10

Username Protected wrote:

Is it possible to hedge fuel on a single airplane level? If you could spend 10 cents a gallon to guarantee a 10,000 gallon annual supply of JetA for 5 years that would make a thirstier plane more viable.

Here is the easiest way:

Nymex

http://www.cmegroup.com/trading/energy/ ... tions.html

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Jan 2016, 15:41

Username Protected wrote:

That table comes from the Aircraft Comparison feature in the Citation Jet Pilots website. One of the member benefits.

Nice benefit. Will it do other aircraft or just Citations?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Jan 2016, 16:20

Just Citations

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Jan 2016, 16:56

Username Protected wrote:

Just Citations

Better view:

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Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Jan 2016, 17:13

Username Protected wrote:

Quick data point fwiw, yesterday in the CJ2 I flew out to Marsh Harbor and back in the 20's (could not get higher), 253 nm as the crow flies. Vfr weather so no delays. Burned 2,250 lbs round trip. That's 1.5 nm per gallon. Just sayin.

But you arrived in Marsh harbour in a jet ! Relative to your annual budget to run the plane this flught is a rounding error. You wouldnt go rent a king air just because that trip is at less than peak efficiency.