BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 11 Nov 2015, 11:40

Mike,
That makes sense

The throttle AD applies 50 lbs of force to the throttles. No pilots involved.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 11 Nov 2015, 11:43

Nothing magic about 3 million. 1.5 would work but it needs to be a significant multiple of 300,000.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 11 Nov 2015, 11:58

Username Protected wrote:

Airplanes are very emotional purchases. The Eclipse hits all the right buttons for me, it's attractive, fun to fly, fast, comfortable, economical and really COOL! It will seduce you and make you turn a blind eye on its shortcomings.

However, it's finicky and expensive to maintain; especially if you are not hands on and drop it off at a service center for blank check maintenance. The fleet really doesn't fly very much and a quick check on the Controller of the total times of the used ones will support this view. It has actuators and probes and sensors and electronics and servos on everything and this is the stuff that breaks. The motors are solid as is the overall airframe.

I think a G2000 would fix all this airplane's shortcomings. The current company is actually doing a pretty good job fixing the shortcomings but they aren't there yet. Unfortunately, I don't think the market will support the massive re-engineering requiring to fit these with world class avionics.

Mike

Mike,
I agree that the market would love to have Garmin's in the aircraft. However I have to tell you that Sunday for the first time I got holding instructions I have always found a way to weasel out before.

It was so simple to put the hold on the FMS and see on the map that I had it correctly it was a beautiful thing. Now holding sucked.

On complicated machinery most failures happen at the beginning or at the end. On the Eclipse there where lots of basically new airplanes with no warranties so the owners had to pay to fix a lot of parts where on other planes where covered.

For Example buy a New Eclipse and you get 5 years of maintenance parts and labor covered.

Now that the airplanes have some hours on them the owners that I know have had good experience.

I think you and I are at the opposite ends of the maintenance budget I have done every service bulletin that applies to my aircraft and I am at 1k/hr with hangers in Fla and NJ. I believe you did as little as possible and came in at 500/hr.

Not bad at all considering what the airplane does.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 11 Nov 2015, 12:19

Michael: Thank you for sharing this experience. I've enjoyed your past posts on Eclipse. Really looked at purchasing one pre-production and just couldn't get comfortable. It certainly has a allure and can be seductive. Hope you find another jet that meets your needs. I looked at Mustang also, but needed more payload. It will be interesting to see where you land!

Best,

Dave

Username Protected · **Posted:** 11 Nov 2015, 12:27

"I think you and I are at the opposite ends of the maintenance budget I have done every service bulletin that applies to my aircraft and I am at 1k/hr with hangers in Fla and NJ. I believe you did as little as possible and came in at 500/hr.

Not bad at all considering what the airplane does."

Hangar: $300 a month
Insurance: $9,000 a year
Fuel: $300 an hour on average
Motor Program: $200 an hour

Maintenance: access to a couple of parts airplanes and a mechanic on the field that used to work at the factory and would allow me to assist, PRICELESS!

Ok, maybe $500 an hour was a bit optimistic BUT I would guess the average Eclipse is in the $1,200 range doing factory maintenance and SBs, etc.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 11 Nov 2015, 12:43

Username Protected wrote:

"I think you and I are at the opposite ends of the maintenance budget I have done every service bulletin that applies to my aircraft and I am at 1k/hr with hangers in Fla and NJ. I believe you did as little as possible and came in at 500/hr.

Not bad at all considering what the airplane does."

Hangar: $300 a month

Quote:

Fla/NY 1450/month

Insurance: $9,000 a year

Quote:

Coverage up to 1.5M hull 6M liabltiy cost down to 11.4

Fuel: $300 an hour on average

Quote:

Yup

Motor Program: $200 an hour

Quote:

Yup

Maintenance: access to a couple of parts airplanes and a mechanic on the field that used to work at the factory and would allow me to assist, PRICELESS!

Quote:

One of the ways to save money is to have your parts fixed instead of getting the parts from Eclipse. When my PMA audio box went on the fritz it cost me 500 to have it repaired aircraft is down for weeks but you save

Ok, maybe $500 an hour was a bit optimistic BUT I would guess the average Eclipse is in the $1,200 range doing factory maintenance and SBs, etc.

My wife keeps good records, too good $1,025/hr since 2009 doing all Eclipse says to do and then some.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 11 Nov 2015, 16:13

Username Protected wrote:

For Example buy a New Eclipse and you get 5 years of maintenance parts and labor covered.

Well, you did pay > $3M for that.

Not selling well.

Swap in Garmin, same price, they would sell much better.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 11 Nov 2015, 22:24

Username Protected wrote:

From 2006, which predates Eclipse, so a bit dated. Fatal accident rates have drop some since.

Note that turboprop numbers include a lot of riskier operations (such as aerial application, bush flying, etc) that jets simply don't do. Jet numbers include two crew, which Eclipse aren't typically.

That is the fallacy with your numbers, the different kinds of aircraft are doing different kinds of missions, so the numbers are not comparable directly. Jets are safer, but not to the ratio of your numbers, when normalized for the mission and conditions.

Mike C.

I was thinking the same thing. Don't park an eclipse next to an air tractor and say, man those turboprops are death traps compared to the jet