Doesn't it seem like there's enough of us to justify a manufacturer selling a twin turboprop aimed at the owner pilot group? Few of us want a King Air.

My feelings are pretty close to Robert's. There's a good chance I'll have an airplane with 2 Garretts at some point, but my 421 will be hard to give up and I'm not in any hurry.

Spencer

What is the ongoing cost?

That sets a new bottom end number, $360/hr/pair for TPE331-14. Most I've seen are around $450/hr/pair, and one foreign operator was at $550/hr/pair. You pay as much for the engine program as you do in fuel!

It is apparently common for the hourly price to rise when ownership transfers, and that there is a transfer/registration fee when that happens.

Mike C.

Mike, I can see the need for speed, but it comes at a cost. Why aren't you strongly considering a Merlin, seems like the same cost as an MU2, similar performance, bigger cabin, and the range you say you need. What am I not seeing here??

We have fairly low usage and we were able to negotiate a lower hourly cost/min hours month contract with Honeywell.

I looked into the 400LS in depth and concluded that while it had amazingly attractive performance and range, it was such a rare bird that parts availability and support was going to be a hassle. To close the door on the prospect of buying the LS, I got the following quotes from EAM Scottsdale for the -14:

Based on the last six -14 A/B engines we have seen in the shop. The total cost is noted for the 3000-hour TBO and the 1500-hour mid-life.

3000-hour = $428,000.00 per engine ( low of $305K. high of $445K) The average of the six engines is correct.

1500-hour = $205,000.00 per engine (low of $149K high of $230K) The average of the six engines is correct.
All these engine have been MSP engines.

Please note all pricing was completed in 2013 or 2014 you may want to add 3.5 % for 2015 pricing.


That's on average $633,000 per engine. Add in 3.5% for 2015 per EAM's estimate, you are at $652,000 or $1,3M for both engines. That equates to $433/hr just for HSI and OH. The 441 -10 HSI and OH are less than half of that. Simple decision for us.

How do the -14 numbers including prop reserve compare to a jet? Or per nm c/w a -10 at 300kts?

Steve- I've taken several corporate jets through the RVSM process and very simple. Many companies that will write the standard manual to present to the local FSDO such as D&D in GA.
Yes- standard required equipment is in order but once all the items are onboard the process is fairly straight forward from my experience unless it's changed.

It's not complicated it just costs to have someone else do it. That's if you buy one already RVSM capable.

Making a airplane RVSM certified that was not is a much bigger process than taking a already certified one and changing owners.

I am not sure how many of the conquest have been RVSM certified, but I would guess not near as many as people would think.

I guess my point was don't assume every conquest is good for 2000 miles. They carry the same fuel load as many of the commanders

For the sake of comparision I am paying $50 per hour per engine for my -10 engines on the Propulsion International program. Minimum use 75 hours per year. A great program geared for the owner operator.

How many hours/year for your minimum?

Is it done by month or by year?

I thought low usage would drive up hourly costs, not lower them.

Mike C.

Which matches fairly well with the engine program costs.


I should hope so, my understanding is it is around $110/hr/pair for -10s, or one quarter the cost. This also matches engine program numbers.


Yes, the -14, -15 engines are very expensive.

Mike C.

My understanding is the PI program is "economy" in that not everything is covered, or not covered 100%. What is included or not in your program? Is OH and HSI covered 100%?

Mike C.

MSP (honeywell) was $100 per engine 150 hours min.

for PI everything is covered but i pay ( or next guy) pays some base amount at overhaul, which does not change over time. have to look at contract to get the number

Slower. Losing 20-25 knots cruise adds up on a west coast trip into headwinds. A jet's speed is a prime reason, to get to the west coast and fly high enough in winter to get over the jetstream.

Heavier. Big bulky airplane. 14,000 lbs MGTOW versus 10,470 for an MU2.

Not good on turf, small high pressure tires (jets aren't either, but if I'm going to have a turboprop, then it should work on turf).

Tall airstair. Harder for people to get in and out of.

Support. Nothing beats MU2, but M7 seems focused on airlines running Metros and not the owner operator.

Ceiling. The 441 and Commander got up to FL350 where fuel flow is lower. Jets are FL410 or higher.

While it has more range, it is less in all other respects to what I got. If I go through the process of getting something else, it needs to be better than a Merlin.

Mike C.