banner
banner

04 Nov 2025, 12:15 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Greenwich AeroGroup (banner)



Reply to topic  [ 87 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Username Protected Message
 Post subject: Re: Totally premature, but which SP jet?
PostPosted: 15 Dec 2014, 16:08 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 08/18/13
Posts: 1152
Post Likes: +769
Aircraft: 737
The CJ4 sounds good, but the SJ30 sound better...

I'm not a guy who believes in transition airplanes, and I have enough turbine time and hours to qualify for most insurance anyhow. I've never met an airplane that was difficult to fly, and I'm a capable but by no means stellar pilot. Train and follow the numbers and they're all fine in my experience.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Totally premature, but which SP jet?
PostPosted: 15 Dec 2014, 16:11 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 06/09/09
Posts: 4438
Post Likes: +3305
Aircraft: C182P, Merlin IIIC
Username Protected wrote:
The C510 Mustang is - and remains - an excellent transitional aircraft.


The idea of a transitional aircraft is tired. Get to what you need/want.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Totally premature, but which SP jet?
PostPosted: 15 Dec 2014, 16:14 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/19/11
Posts: 3308
Post Likes: +1434
Company: Bottom Line Experts
Location: KTOL - Toledo, OH
Aircraft: 2004 SR22 G2
I think the SJ30 must take first place in the history of aircraft for the longest time spent in development. What's it been now? 30 years??? I can't even imagine the grand sum of $$ flushed down the toilet by the handful of various investors who have owned it since the 80's...

_________________
Don Coburn
Corporate Expense Reduction Specialist
2004 SR22 G2


Top

 Post subject: Re: Totally premature, but which SP jet?
PostPosted: 15 Dec 2014, 16:39 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/29/08
Posts: 26338
Post Likes: +13085
Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
Username Protected wrote:
The C510 Mustang is - and remains - an excellent transitional aircraft.


The idea of a transitional aircraft is tired. Get to what you need/want.

+1

Top

 Post subject: Re: Totally premature, but which SP jet?
PostPosted: 15 Dec 2014, 17:50 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 06/09/09
Posts: 4438
Post Likes: +3305
Aircraft: C182P, Merlin IIIC
Username Protected wrote:
I think the SJ30 must take first place in the history of aircraft for the longest time spent in development. What's it been now? 30 years??? I can't even imagine the grand sum of $$ flushed down the toilet by the handful of various investors who have owned it since the 80's...



Ed Swearingen took a long time on the development of his jet. I think he was a good designer but he did not have the capabilities of a larger outfit like Beach or Cessna.

I have been told that he was also taking a long time on the design of the clean sheet Merlin III and that others invested in the project with him at the time had to tell him to stop making changes and start building.

System redundancy, speed, range and comfort were Swearingen's design criteria when he developed the Merlin III series and also his jet. In his day, his designs were ahead on all counts.

I was told that he had a fit every time he saw a straight wing citation, lamenting the speed that is given up by using it.

Would liked to have met Swearingen and let him know that the Merlin IIIC is still doing what he designed it to.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Totally premature, but which SP jet?
PostPosted: 15 Dec 2014, 20:04 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 08/18/13
Posts: 1152
Post Likes: +769
Aircraft: 737
Yup. Ed Swearingen was a pure genius. I really don't understand why the oafish King Air is such a hit and the truly fantastic Merlin is a pariah. The Merlin is faster, better on gas, roomier, and has legs that go for many miles. It's fine on one engine.

I really don't get it. I love my MU2, but it wasn't my first choice. If that guy in OH had been reasonable on the price of the -10 IIIA I was drooling over I'd have bought that instead.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Totally premature, but which SP jet?
PostPosted: 15 Dec 2014, 20:24 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 08/22/12
Posts: 38
Post Likes: +22
Location: KCRQ - Carlsbad, CA
Aircraft: CJ, MD500, R44, PA34
OK, I am going to qualify my remarks by starting with the fact that I don't fly a lot of different jets. I fly a G550, the Citation 500 series and the CJ (CE525) Series jets.

I fly the CJ a LOT, mostly a straight CJ, the 1+ and the 3. We have a straight CJ that does what I need it to do. ust had dual GTN750s installed and it is a dream to fly.

I also came from the turboprop world before getting into SP jets. I fly the CJ single pilot most of the time and I mentor a lot of new owner/operators in their CJs. The CJ is a fantastic machine. It will do what you ask it to do all of the time as long as you respect its limitations, it flies like a dream, it is a wonderful single pilot machine that is really a single pilot machine. I recently flew a CJ1+ back from the east coast SP and enjoyed every minute at FL410 with no SIC and never once worried about my ability to handle it single pilot in the event of an emergency.

I would seriously consider a CJ if you are looking for a single pilot jet. As others have said here, find one of the airframes that does what you need it to do 90% of the time and go that direction.

In addition, I know that they are coming out with winglets for the 525 that will do amazing things for their range. One of our clients is the STC holder (http://www.tamarackaero.com/). 1859 miles non-stop in a straight CJ.

These will go on all of the CJs except the CJ4. Basically adds almost an hour of range to all of the CJ line.

So if you can wait for Cessna to start selling the winglets, I think the CJ will do far more for you than any of the other options out there.

_________________
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry


Top

 Post subject: Re: Totally premature, but which SP jet?
PostPosted: 15 Dec 2014, 21:00 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 11/09/13
Posts: 1910
Post Likes: +927
Location: KCMA
Aircraft: Aero Commander 980
Username Protected wrote:
OK, I am going to qualify my remarks by starting with the fact that I don't fly a lot of different jets. I fly a G550, the Citation 500 series and the CJ (CE525) Series jets.

I fly the CJ a LOT, mostly a straight CJ, the 1+ and the 3. We have a straight CJ that does what I need it to do. ust had dual GTN750s installed and it is a dream to fly.

I also came from the turboprop world before getting into SP jets. I fly the CJ single pilot most of the time and I mentor a lot of new owner/operators in their CJs. The CJ is a fantastic machine. It will do what you ask it to do all of the time as long as you respect its limitations, it flies like a dream, it is a wonderful single pilot machine that is really a single pilot machine. I recently flew a CJ1+ back from the east coast SP and enjoyed every minute at FL410 with no SIC and never once worried about my ability to handle it single pilot in the event of an emergency.

I would seriously consider a CJ if you are looking for a single pilot jet. As others have said here, find one of the airframes that does what you need it to do 90% of the time and go that direction.

In addition, I know that they are coming out with winglets for the 525 that will do amazing things for their range. One of our clients is the STC holder (http://www.tamarackaero.com/). 1859 miles non-stop in a straight CJ.

These will go on all of the CJs except the CJ4. Basically adds almost an hour of range to all of the CJ line.

So if you can wait for Cessna to start selling the winglets, I think the CJ will do far more for you than any of the other options out there.



Thanks for the PIREP it is nice to her from a guy who flies a lot.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Totally premature, but which SP jet?
PostPosted: 16 Dec 2014, 15:30 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 12/29/10
Posts: 1569
Post Likes: +523
Location: Houston, TX USA
Aircraft: Learjet
I just want a SP jet with a cabin about the size of the Eclipse (but with external baggage, garmin avionics, and an air conditioner that works), a supercritical wing with 40 degrees of sweep, capable of .94m cruise, 3800 mile range, and straight climb to FL510 in 25 minutes with 2 people and full fuel ... and it would be nice if it handled like a fighter so handflying would be enjoyable. Is that really too much to ask?

_________________
Destroyer of the world’s finest aircraft since 1985.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Totally premature, but which SP jet?
PostPosted: 16 Dec 2014, 16:07 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/17/13
Posts: 6652
Post Likes: +5963
Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Aerostar Superstar 2
I'd go even further. Same as Theodore, but I need 6000nm. I work in Europe still, and it would be great to (in the future, when I've come into great fortunes) load up in a smaller SP and go direct Los Angeles-London and not have to hassle with any stops. That's a 4700nm trip - and you want to be able to do that going back against the winds with margin to spare.

_________________
Without love, where would you be now?


Last edited on 16 Dec 2014, 16:08, edited 1 time in total.

Top

 Post subject: Re: Totally premature, but which SP jet?
PostPosted: 16 Dec 2014, 16:07 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 05/10/09
Posts: 3868
Post Likes: +2980
Company: On the wagon
Location: Overland Park, KS (KLXT)
Aircraft: Planeless
Username Protected wrote:
I just want a SP jet with a cabin about the size of the Eclipse (but with external baggage, garmin avionics, and an air conditioner that works), a supercritical wing with 40 degrees of sweep, capable of .94m cruise, 3800 mile range, and straight climb to FL510 in 25 minutes with 2 people and full fuel ... and it would be nice if it handled like a fighter so handflying would be enjoyable. Is that really too much to ask?


It's a little faster, but it only has 3300 mile range. (Air Force R-12 variant has 2 seats)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_SR-71_Blackbird

_________________
Stop in flyover country and have some BBQ!


Top

 Post subject: Re: Totally premature, but which SP jet?
PostPosted: 16 Dec 2014, 16:14 
Offline



User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 07/26/10
Posts: 4296
Post Likes: +197
Location: West Palm Beach, FL (KLNA)
Aircraft: 1979 Duke B60
Username Protected wrote:
I just want a SP jet with a cabin about the size of the Eclipse (but with external baggage, garmin avionics, and an air conditioner that works), a supercritical wing with 40 degrees of sweep, capable of .94m cruise, 3800 mile range, and straight climb to FL510 in 25 minutes with 2 people and full fuel ... and it would be nice if it handled like a fighter so handflying would be enjoyable. Is that really too much to ask?


It's a little faster, but it only has 3300 mile range. (Air Force R-12 variant has 2 seats)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_SR-71_Blackbird


I hear it's a fuel guzzler, do those tankers mid ocean take AMEX?

Top

 Post subject: Re: Totally premature, but which SP jet?
PostPosted: 16 Dec 2014, 16:28 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/29/10
Posts: 2810
Post Likes: +2705
Location: Dallas, TX (KADS & KJWY)
Aircraft: T28B,7GCBC,E90
Username Protected wrote:
I fly the CJ a LOT, mostly a straight CJ, the 1+ and the 3. We have a straight CJ that does what I need it to do. ust had dual GTN750s installed and it is a dream to fly.


Wow - I hadn't priced out CJs in a while, and the CJ and CJ-1 are getting down right affordable. Looks like between $1 and $1.5 for nice examples.

Robert


Top

 Post subject: Re: Totally premature, but which SP jet?
PostPosted: 16 Dec 2014, 16:40 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 08/22/12
Posts: 38
Post Likes: +22
Location: KCRQ - Carlsbad, CA
Aircraft: CJ, MD500, R44, PA34
Username Protected wrote:
I fly the CJ a LOT, mostly a straight CJ, the 1+ and the 3. We have a straight CJ that does what I need it to do. ust had dual GTN750s installed and it is a dream to fly.


Wow - I hadn't priced out CJs in a while, and the CJ and CJ-1 are getting down right affordable. Looks like between $1 and $1.5 for nice examples.

Robert


And you can really make the panel look nice in the CJs as well!

Attachment:
screen 2014-12-16 at 12.36.29 PM.jpg


Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.

_________________
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry


Top

 Post subject: Re: Totally premature, but which SP jet?
PostPosted: 16 Dec 2014, 17:00 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 08/18/13
Posts: 1152
Post Likes: +769
Aircraft: 737
I'm kind of in love with the idea of the SJ30. I tend to like off the beaten path things, and that sucker really fits the profile aside from being capable of doing what I want SP. If it's good enough for Morgan Freeman, surely a low rent mofo like me will be more than happy with it, lol.

Richard, thanks for the winglet pirep. Is that a paper extra hour or have you seen it happen in living color?


Top

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 87 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next



Postflight (Bottom Banner)

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us

BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner, Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.

BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates. Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.

Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2025

.jandsaviation-85x50.jpg.
.rnp.85x50.png.
.Latitude.jpg.
.tempest.jpg.
.garmin-85x200-2021-11-22.jpg.
.Wingman 85x50.png.
.bullardaviation-85x50-2.jpg.
.ssv-85x50-2023-12-17.jpg.
.kingairnation-85x50.png.
.midwest2.jpg.
.camguard.jpg.
.Aircraft Associates.85x50.png.
.MountainAirframe.jpg.
.saint-85x50.jpg.
.sierratrax-85x50.png.
.pdi-85x50.jpg.
.boomerang-85x50-2023-12-17.png.
.gallagher_85x50.jpg.
.Plane AC Tile.png.
.stanmusikame-85x50.jpg.
.aerox_85x100.png.
.bpt-85x50-2019-07-27.jpg.
.8flight logo.jpeg.
.dbm.jpg.
.AeroMach85x100.png.
.b-kool-85x50.png.
.performanceaero-85x50.jpg.
.geebee-85x50.jpg.
.ocraviation-85x50.png.
.BT Ad.png.
.airmart-85x150.png.
.SCA.jpg.
.tat-85x100.png.
.puremedical-85x200.jpg.
.Elite-85x50.png.
.mcfarlane-85x50.png.
.kadex-85x50.jpg.
.holymicro-85x50.jpg.
.CiESVer2.jpg.
.headsetsetc_Small_85x50.jpg.
.concorde.jpg.
.daytona.jpg.
.LogAirLower85x50.png.
.KalAir_Black.jpg.
.jetacq-85x50.jpg.
.blackwell-85x50.png.
.blackhawk-85x100-2019-09-25.jpg.
.Wentworth_85x100.JPG.
.traceaviation-85x150.png.
.sarasota.png.
.wat-85x50.jpg.
.AAI.jpg.
.planelogix-85x100-2015-04-15.jpg.
.suttoncreativ85x50.jpg.
.shortnnumbers-85x100.png.
.aviationdesigndouble.jpg.
.temple-85x100-2015-02-23.jpg.
.ABS-85x100.jpg.
.v2x.85x100.png.
.KingAirMaint85_50.png.