Jason, you fly more than the average guy. How often is the weather (icing conditions/convective activity) a factor in your cruise altitude choice? In my past experience the mid flight levels is where most of the weather develops that one would like to avoid. I enjoy going up and over it. I realize with your plane there is very little penalty other than fuel flow for going lower. Not so much with the CJ. It's a go high, or don't go far and slow choice.

I flew the whole way at 17.5

I flew the whole way at 17.5

Korny intersection

I fly 17.5 all the time.

Anyone flying any airplane, no matter what kind or how many powerplants it may have, should have been trained that only professionals fly airplanes. With this kind of attitude aviation is aviation; 150 or Learjet, Gulfstream or Taylorcraft. An airplane is an airplane.

Well we are almost at 400 pages.

Mike,
If the Cirrus had 2 engines and flew all the way up to 41,000 feet and was faster than any other jet - you still wouldn't buy one would you?

As much as many of us are stuck in piston think, some are stuck in traditional jet think.

New product, new marketshare, new people coming into GA - I like it.

Peace,
Don

The best engineered product does not always win.

I like that Cirrus knows their customer base and who they are. Personally I agree with everything Mike has said but in the end of the day what matters is who sells what. I would have never thought Cirrus would be as popular as they are, I personally would not buy one. But it does not matter what I would buy.

Design and emotions drive a lot of what people buy. I have been doing Luxury sales for 25 years and have found that Insecurity is a major driver into why people buy what they buy. Mike C is not looking at this from a insecure place LOL

Mike

I don't think there is a right or wrong perspective on this thread. It's all about ones perspective. What makes it work for one, not always works for another. Allows differentiation and competition.

I enjoy the different and somewhat opposing view points. Makes for interesting food for thought. Plus it's down right entertaining sometimes

That's not me but good job looking like a weirdo.

That's not me but good job looking like a weirdo.

The analogy I use is asking a group of bicycle owners what they want to see in a car.

That won't result in the best car.

That's no insult to the bicycle owners, either, they simply don't know what they don't know.


When Eclipse was founded, Dayjet didn't exist. How did they get started with no market? Your version is bit like revisionist history, and after the fact explanation that didn't really happen. Eclipse was, and always was, a personal jet market. They even wrote white papers on that "new" market.


You know that? At this stage of deliveries for Eclipse, there were many to declare Eclipse was going to make it big, too.

The jury is still out, WAY out, on the SF50 being a commercial success. The major issue is exactly the same as Eclipse, an order book where most of them are priced at or below cost. We know at least into the 300s positions, the price is the $1.39M number. I simply don't think Cirrus can make a profit at that number. For one thing, that is only $500-600K more than an SR22 and the parts and labor on an SF50 have to be triple that of an SR22.


There's this belief that had the SF50 been a twin, the Cirrus customer base would have rejected it. I believe that to be hugely false. Cirrus marketing would have seen to that.

Mike C.

Might result is a pretty sweet motorcycle though.

If your point is to try and label all my posts as hate against Cirrus, you are way off base.

If it had been a twin and could go to FL410, I would consider it a vastly superior plane. In essence, an Eclipse done right. Probably not on my shopping list due to range and payload I require, but a FAR better entry airplane that what it is now.


Who are these "new people" who are buying SF50s that were not into GA before? Moving up an SR guy into an SF50 isn't making "new people in GA".

Mike C.

You either have tremendous schedule flexibility to avoid any cold clouds,

Or your plane has magical properties,

Or you aren't telling the truth.

I can't go 40 hours without some ice encounter, including the summer.

Mike C.

I wonder if we can break Beechtalk at 1000 pages on a thread. My bet is this thread will make it to 999 and beyond.