Over the lifetime of owning the SF50, you will not save enough time on 450 nm flights over an SR22 to break even on initial and yearly type training required.

You are looking at 30 minutes difference per leg at most. It may even be negative some days for the SF50 depending on circumstances and winds.

For a 450 nm flight, you will be burning huge amounts of fuel since most of it will be at low altitude.

Can you imagine if Cirrus had used this logic on the SR22? Hey, Cessna 182 pilots tend to fly mostly on legs less than 2 hours, so let's make the SR22 be about 160 knots and have only 300 nm range. How lame would that be?

Mike C.

Thanks, I think...


Yes, missed that prediction, though not by much. Seems they may deliver maybe 20 by that time? So far, only 11 on the US registry. Still way off the production predictions Cirrus claimed when I wrote that.

Mike C.

Mike - do you hate Meredians as much as Vision Jets?? It’s slower, has the same range or less (excluding m600) and is more complex to fly.

I don’t find the attitude fun to watch. A bet is a bet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eclipse_500

"Number built 260"

You said "sales", are you backpedaling to change that to "built" now?

You are very unreliable in the reporting of facts or the views of others. Why do you even post obviously wrong stuff like that?

Mike C.

Is a "real" jet one that you buy for $5MM and sell for $1MM?

No "real" airplane maker ever built a plane with a parachute either.

Mike....
Assaults to your right brain:
Why do I drive a car that only gets 16-18 mpg
Why do I wear a watch costing thousands
Why do I fly Nancy and me to Colorado for far more cost in fuel alone than what I can buy tickets for
Why do I pay $50 for a good steak in a restaurant that I can cook at home for $20
Why do I even own an airplane
Why do I own a motorcycle I only drive for 500 miles each year
Answers to all of the above
Because I can and I want to.
I can’t afford this jet, but after sitting in it and seeing it, I would buy one in a heart beat if I could. Much more likely to happen than a Citation, or Mits or Pilates. It’s numbers fit right in to what I do with a plane and thousands of others as well.

They are going to sell hundreds of them to very happy owners for whom it’s limitations are a non issue.

If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

The thing is if somebody typically flies 500-600nm flights, is happy with their SR-22, but would like to add some more capability for negotiating weather and such, the Vision Jet is going to be on target for them. It's not just about speed. Whether you're flying a 300kt jet or a 400kt jet, it just doesn't make that much difference until your making 2,000nm trips. The fact that the Vision Jet is a 300kt airplane isn't of significance.

Actually Mike did not say half of that. I have been searching around, and here is the closest in terms of certification:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=123605&p=1677174#p1677174
The will have problems getting certified. Not that it cannot be done.

And here Mike covers that he sees problems, but does not know how Cirrus will get past the regs. Also, likely that the FAA would only bend a little:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=123652&p=1676502#p1676502

And here Mike said the SF50 will be between a fairly narrow range. The 25K regulatory limit or the advertised 28K limit.
viewtopic.php?f=49&t=100102&p=1591192#p1591192

As for the rest, I am kinda tired of search BT. But I am 99% positive, that he implied the SF50 will bankrupt the company, that Cirrus will lose money on each plane, and that after the first few are produced, Cirrus will stop selling them, and the market will collapse.

The problem is Mike has argued the certification problems for so long and hard, people assume it meant he believes it cannot be certified. Mike actually states it cannot be certified and be a good jet using his definitions (range, fuel burn, speed....) due to regulatory requirements.

Tim

When should we expect this to happen?

They can do that nowadays.

I know you have some experience with the PA46, but exactly how is a Meridian (pick the same generation avionics M500) more complex to fly. Meridian doesn't need a type rating, that decomplexes ones life a little, point goes to the M500. Doesn't have FADEC, point goes to the Vision jet. Cruise fuel flow on the Meridian is pretty much the same regardless of altitude making fuel planning pretty easy, whereas the SF50 is a fuel gobbler down low, point goes to the Meridian. High, hot or short runways requires pulling the performance tables out for the Vision, for the Meridian, is it an FAA authorized airport in the US with an instrument approach??? Yep, good to go, no need for stinking tables, point Meridian.

Several hundred Eclipse deposit holders signed contracts, paid money when they signed, and got no airplane and no money back. When you pay a deposit and sign a contract, you have a sale. When they get the airplane, you have a delivery.


This must now be an intentional lie since you have been corrected on this point several times and keep repeating it.

Mike C.

Some jets certainly fit that description.

A "real" jet is one that can fly where jets are meant to, upper flight levels. That takes two engines to meet certification requirements to be what is essentially s space ship.


You certainly won't find parachutes on real jets.

In the case of the SF50, it isn't clear the chute is really worthwhile. What we know so far is that activating the chute first requires the autopilot to establish a level attitude and slow the plane down before firing. Well, if that's achievable, then you don't need the chute any more as you are under control and flying. If that's not achievable, then the chute probably doesn't work since you are out of envelope. So it seems the conditions under which the chute really saves the day are essentially non existent.

It will be very interesting when the chute is first used and what the outcome is.

Mike C.