BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 May 2013, 18:46

Username Protected wrote:

Have I entered the Twilight Zone and ended up on the COPA site?

No, just the COPA thread.

Feel free to start a thread about all the new stuff going on at Beechcraft.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 May 2013, 18:46

Username Protected wrote:

R9 does not use Garmin anything including 430's. Everything is Avidyne including WAAS GPS's. Check this out http://www.avidyne.com/products/release-9/r9-cirrus.asp in that link you will see that the original equipment that is in the plane i.e., Garmin 430's, Stecc 55X, Avidyne Displays, etc all go back to Avidyne. So the cost is really considerably more than $69k.

Yeah. That's awesome stuff. I'd do that in a second.

Why not available for Bo or Baron?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 May 2013, 18:52

Pretty sure I have read all 29 pages of the thread. Honestly, it's actually made me feel better about what I am doing with my flying dollars than worse.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 May 2013, 18:52

Username Protected wrote:

Feel free to start a thread about all the new stuff going on at Beechcraft.

.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 May 2013, 18:53

Username Protected wrote:

Have I entered the Twilight Zone and ended up on the COPA site?

No, just the COPA thread.

Feel free to start a thread about all the new stuff going on at Beechcraft.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 May 2013, 18:58

Username Protected wrote:

Pretty sure I have read all 29 pages of the thread. Honestly, it's actually made me feel better about what I am doing with my flying dollars than worse.

I'm just not sure where comments like this are coming from. The thread was never about anything but New Cirrus vs. New Baron or Bo. Doesn't mean you have to buy one.......

It's just about our interest in the future of Beechcraft and what they are doing to ensure there is a future. It's not a thread about comparing older planes to new planes blah blah. Do you care if Beech closes it's doors? This thread topic affects you whether you're buying a new plane or not.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 May 2013, 19:21

Better business people, simple platform like the Cherokee was in the day . Avionics is 75% of their success and the fixed gear.
The fixed gear looks like crap to me and I wouldn't buy one for that reason. Yeah I know all the aerodynamic BS , goes as fast , etc. but I want to look good doing it.
Now if the Panthera gets certified it could blow Cirrus away.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 May 2013, 19:45

A soup to nuts RV10 costs 150k to build in a garage and a man year. If that man year is 100k fully loaded, less if you can do a lot of it in India, Mexico or Philippines, then how does 850k make sense for either Cirrus OR Beech? Take over regulation and tort out of this and a new Bo should cost $400k, the company profitable and selling 500 a year. If you're selling 13 planes a year you lose money even if they triple the price... Cirrus is probably barely breaking even at 20x that number. They need an order of magnitude increase in sales and that will only come if the gov gets out of the way and levels or nearly levels the playing field with the exp guys.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 May 2013, 19:48

Ok, fair enough. Is this thread for the one person on BT that said they were planning on buying a G36 TC or the potential 250 that MAY buy a Cirrus G5 in the next 12 months?

There is an decent argument to make that this is the least relevant Hall of Fame thread ever on BT.

Not one contributor to this thread is going to buy either.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 May 2013, 19:49

Username Protected wrote:

Have I entered the Twilight Zone and ended up on the COPA site?

No, just the COPA thread.

Feel free to start a thread about all the new stuff going on at Beechcraft.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 May 2013, 19:55

Username Protected wrote:

The fixed gear looks like crap to me and I wouldn't buy one for that reason. Yeah I know all the aerodynamic BS , goes as fast , etc. but I want to look good doing it.
Now if the Panthera gets certified it could blow Cirrus away.

This is actually my only issue with the Cirrus - putting that gear up and down is just freaking awesome.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 May 2013, 20:05

Username Protected wrote:

A soup to nuts RV10 costs 150k to build in a garage and a man year. If that man year is 100k fully loaded, less if you can do a lot of it in India, Mexico or Philippines, then how does 850k make sense for either Cirrus OR Beech? Take over regulation and tort out of this and a new Bo should cost $400k, the company profitable and selling 500 a year. If you're selling 13 planes a year you lose money even if they triple the price... Cirrus is probably barely breaking even at 20x that number. They need an order of magnitude increase in sales and that will only come if the gov gets out of the way and levels or nearly levels the playing field with the exp guys.

If you eliminated all tort reform, it would reduce the cost of a Cirrus by $30,000. Assuming my previous known Product Liability premiums are still correct for them as of last year.
$9,000,000 premium divided by 300 units = $30,000 per plane.

I am personally aware of many airplane and engine manufacturers who are going with out Product Liability insurance right now.

As one owner told me, we are betting the business if we get sued.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 May 2013, 20:12

So, for Beechcraft that would $9,000,000/12 = $750,000 per Bonanza? :scratch:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 May 2013, 20:13

Maybe 30k is Cirrus's ante but tort law would ripple through the whole supply chain, TCM and garmin and on down. Probably shave 100k off and over regulation takes care of the rest.