I should have used the word "option".

That is probably true, although I heard someone say once what the average net worth of the average Cirrus buyer was, won't repeat it, because it is inflammatory . Sounds like the average person flying a new Cirrus could probably fly almost any single pilot plane that they want.[/quote]

I know several people that have purchased brand new SR22s in the last few years. They were all small business owners or professionals, low time pilots, that are using them primarily for business use, to make more money/save on taxes, and to be able to spend more time with their families.

FADEC failure.
Stability augmentation failure.
Yaw damper failure.
Yaw damper automatic engagement failure.
Chute autopilot interconnect failure.
Trim failures complicated by being V tail.
TKS system failure.
Inlet bleed air deice failure.
Brake failure more serious.

The SF50 is a complex airplane which appears to be simple. Every bit of automation can fail which creates burdens on the pilot to detect and handle that.

Mike C.

FADEC failure.
Stability augmentation failure.
Yaw damper failure.
Yaw damper automatic engagement failure.
Chute autopilot interconnect failure.
Trim failures complicated by being V tail.
TKS system failure.
Inlet bleed air deice failure.
Brake failure more serious.

The SF50 is a complex airplane which appears to be simple. Every bit of automation can fail which creates burdens on the pilot to detect and handle that.

Mike C.

I'm gonna go more with mike. The SR22 is aerodynamically conventional and flies much slower than the SF50. Lot more chances for trim/stability problems to be significant.

The chute interconnect is much more complex on the SF50

The SF50 will fly in icing conditions more - essentially every flight will be flight levels. presumably half of the SR22T flights are 10K and below.

FADEC failure, while possibly not fatal, will allow you to toast your million dollar engine if not careful.

The brake failure is ABSOLUTELY more serious because the SF50 is heavier and lacks the giant rotating air brake on the front of the SR22

Errr, no. FADECs are dual channel. FADEC failure of one channel is a non-event. Land and call maintenance.

I have not heard of any Williams dual channel FADEC failures. But if you were the one just abide by the temp limits and land. With your engine on the Williams TAP program whatever damage there is will be covered.

Someday we will be able to put the SR22T and SF50 flight manuals next to each other and compare.

The emergency and abnormal section in the SF50 manual will be much larger. The airplane is simply far more complex and has far more things that can go wrong.

Mike C.

Now you have:

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... el-failure

The PIC, Eric Norber of ELJ Aviation, told AIN the indication meant one of the Fadec channels had failed and the unit had switched to a backup.
...
As the aircraft was approaching minimums in the bumpy, ice-laden clouds, the second Fadec apparently failed and “the right engine shut itself down,” Norber said.
...
The engine data was uploaded to Williams, and the faults clearly appeared in the time line, although the engine manufacturer has no idea yet what caused the uncommanded engine shutdown.
...
According to Norber, the Williams technicians told him this is the first such dual Fadec failure in eight million flight hours on the FJ44.The FJ44’s system redundancy at the time the engine was certified was considered robust enough that the engine was certified without a manual method of controlling the engine in the event of this kind of failure.

The Williams don't have manual reversion.

Mike C.

I know two former position holders, not sure if they will take delivery (have not talked to them in a few years).
Both owners had fractional ownership in Citations, and outright ownership of Cirrus SR22s.
The SR22 met the mission for regional flying and accomplished the majority of hours between DC, Philly, NYC and occasionally Boston. Anything else, they used the jet.

How many owners of the SF50 understand the practical limitations/range? I know Cirrus studied the flight data on average flights of TBM, PC12... to determine how big/fast and other specs to build the SF50. But I am curious, how does this match against the actual demographic buying the plane?


Tim

Now you have:

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... el-failure

The PIC, Eric Norber of ELJ Aviation, told AIN the indication meant one of the Fadec channels had failed and the unit had switched to a backup.
...
As the aircraft was approaching minimums in the bumpy, ice-laden clouds, the second Fadec apparently failed and “the right engine shut itself down,” Norber said.
...
The engine data was uploaded to Williams, and the faults clearly appeared in the time line, although the engine manufacturer has no idea yet what caused the uncommanded engine shutdown.
...
According to Norber, the Williams technicians told him this is the first such dual Fadec failure in eight million flight hours on the FJ44.The FJ44’s system redundancy at the time the engine was certified was considered robust enough that the engine was certified without a manual method of controlling the engine in the event of this kind of failure.

The Williams don't have manual reversion.

Mike C.

Note that in the dual FADEC failure mentioned above, the second channel and engine failed at minimums on an approach. That's probably well below chute effective altitude.


Do you want the FJ44 FADEC with 8 million hours but has experienced a dual channel failure?

Or do you want the new one with no service history and reliability record?

Not clear which is better!

Mike C.

I predict it will be hard for someone who has flown Citations in the past to find the SF50 satisfying.

Mike C.

Mike,

You have done as much here to sell SF-50s as the last president did to sell guns and ammo....

I predict it will be hard for someone who has flown Citations in the past to find the SF50 satisfying.

Mike C.

The eclipse has a major fadec weakness.

Most fadec systems can take elec power from either ships power or from a dedicated, engine driven fadec generator. The eclipse fadec can only get power from ships power.

A dual failure in an eclipse is not meaningful unless the Cirrus installation suffers from the same cheap ass archetecture as the eclipse.