The airframes are great, but when you add TAT, SVT and TKS from the factory to equal a Cirrus, the price tag is going to be over $1 Million and NO ONE is going to buy one.

Beech is in a Catch 22, $40 Million to certify a new design and a $1 Million price tag to compete with Cirrus.

This looks like a real bad road ahead, regardless of how many Management and/or Sales people you fire.

It still takes them 6,000 man hours to build one.

Good idea. Owner assist?

If I were Beech, I'd wait to see if there is any meaningful reform to Part 23 before I did anything.

That said, Brands B, C and P have been building the same airplanes for nearly 60 years. The design work and tooling is fully depreciated. The materials and techniques are understood to the point of exhaustion.

Yet it still costs $1000 for a part that was made for a 1965 GM, which costs $25 to make.

No one wants to look at the elephant in the room. If it costs you 800 large to build a SLIGHTLY different version of the same airplane you've been making forever, then there is a serious, fundamental problem with the business you're in.

Best,
Rich

Bingo. Set up a joint program with CMI to build your own engine (like superior). Further establish a program that allows you to get the quals/test for an A&P. Then partner with ABS to establish a training regime like Cirrus.

THAT.

What if Beech re-introduced a V-tail with TN550, FIKI, that had state-of-the-art avionics? Would that compete with a Cirrus? It sure would be a head-turner when sitting next to a Cirrus on the ramp!

(And this is coming from an A36 driver!)

Jason, if you were in the market for your G36 today, how much would you be willing to pay for a 10-year-old A36, upgraded by a third party to be as comparable as possible to your G36, like new inside and out, and ready right now? Airframe is under 1000 hours and the Powermasters TN550 is zero-time. It's either that at $XXX,000 or whatever you would have in a new one plus upgrades. Knowing what you know now, what's that plane (and your time) worth?

I understand there are tax benefits for buying new, but I don't really know how much that impacts the bottom line. You've basically described the factory warranty as worthless, and I know you have an analytical mind. I just wonder if there's a market for this kind of aftermarket reman. I would think someone would already have a supply ready to go.

Garmin knows where the money is! It's not in installing 100 G2000/year in new planes that cannot be updated because they are certified by the manufacturer. It's installing Garmin equipment in 1000's of the existing airframes!

To be fair, Beechcraft was selling 80-90 Bonanzas a year up thru 2008 when the economy and HBC hit the fan.

John,

I presume you will not read this because by now surely you have found the ignore button. But I don't think anyone participating in this discussion dislikes Beech. To the contrary. I know Jason is a big fan of his former plane for example. I certainly am of mine. But affection, and frankly, loyalty doesn't blind me to obvious shortcomings. It also does not blind me to the very obvious fine qualities of other aircraft.

You can see the rest of Panel Talk with viewing this thread. By your post count I see that you should have enough experience to figure that out. No one here is wasting your time. Don't participate if wish. But also please don't try to tell the rest of us what to think or say.

I don't know who you were referring to in your post. I also don't care. I didn't like the insulting tone which I think very clearly violates the norms or our little Internet community.

As a potential buyer very soon, I think everyone is missing a very important fact. The new G36TC will not even carry 4 adults and baggage with full fuel, and its not pressurized. It's not even on my radar. If I'm spending over $1million ( and it will be) , its going to have at least 800lbs. Payload with full fuel and be pressurized.

Jason, if you were in the market for your G36 today, how much would you be willing to pay for a 10-year-old A36, upgraded by a third party to be as comparable as possible to your G36, like new inside and out, and ready right now? Airframe is under 1000 hours and the Powermasters TN550 is zero-time. It's either that at $XXX,000 or whatever you would have in a new one plus upgrades. Knowing what you know now, what's that plane (and your time) worth?

I understand there are tax benefits for buying new, but I don't really know how much that impacts the bottom line. You've basically described the factory warranty as worthless, and I know you have an analytical mind. I just wonder if there's a market for this kind of aftermarket reman. I would think someone would already have a supply ready to go.

Whatcha gonna buy then?

Hey guys,

In an earlier post I made a crack about flying a G5 today if the tornadoes permitted. We took off before the rain and flew for an hour and a half. After landing we discovered all hell had broken loose here. Sadly, it looks like thousands are homeless and dozens dead in the terrible storms this afternoon.

I had planned to give you an extensive Pirep on the G5 but frankly my excitement at flying a truly amazing aircraft is deeply dampened by the tragic loose of life. I am just thankful that it looks like our 5 agencies in the affected area, and employees, are all safe. They will be very busy in the coming days.

It reminds me that what we passionately debate here really does not matter that much and that we need to put our trivial disagreements into the proper context.

I will say, about the G5, that it is truly amazing. I flew it, by hand, through the entire envelope. In fact I was a little queasy toward the end. We did all I could think of and tested every system (except CAPS). It is all that Jason said and a lot more in my opinion. I encourage all of you, even those who will NEVER fly anything but a Beech until they pry your Medical from your cold lifeless fingers, to go try it. If for no other reason than the sheer aviating fun of it.

Not to mention G3X units/autopilots in experimentals.

Take a look at what a two screen G3X system costs WITH autopilot. Oh, yea, that includes full engine instrumentation as well.

Best,
Rich

Whatcha gonna buy then?