There are significant differences in how the G3000 system is programmed for various aircraft. The manufacturer has a lot of say in the programming, and Garmin does not necessarily share one manufacturer’s features/ideas with others. I was quite surprised at the number of differences between my SF50 and my 960.

As an example, the G3000 programming on my 960 DOES allow an along track offset to be programmed before a prior fix. However, that ATK offset needs to be on a radial direction from the ATK waypoint, that intersects with the flight plan. (In other words, it won’t create an offset that includes a turn). Below is an excerpt from the manual.

Integrated electronics are amazing when the new plane is shown at NBAA.

As a used plane buyer, I want to avoid them like crazy. The last thing I want in a 40 year old plane is a 40 year old avionics black box that requires an act of congress to change.

Ha! So true. And that’s not to mention an uncooperative (or perhaps non-existent) manufacturer

Anything 40 years old today is EASY to upgrade. That predates these integrated avionics.

Something bought today will be a disaster to upgrade in 40 years. It is basically a computer with wings and we all know how short the product life cycles are for computer stuff, even the supposedly long lived embedded stuff like avionics.

I am pretty sure 40 years from now, I will be able to put something in my Citation V and it will fly.

Mike C.

When I was a teenager I worked for an old guy named Dub Gunter, German guy, the most hard working 80 year old I had ever met… heck, he was probably the hardest working man of any age I had ever met, and that is saying a lot considering who my father was.

I helped Dub restore old Ford tractors, by the time I was 17 I knew every single inch of an 8N tractor. He made me buy all of my own tools, Craftsman from Sears because we didn’t have online shopping and Snap On was too expensive, probably tools better suited for aircraft mechanics.

I learned how to drink my coffee black, do even the most mundane jobs with excellence and that a man’s word was all he actually owned. The wisdom that old man possessed would fill the pages of a thick book and be far more insightful than most of the crap you read today. He wasn’t a child of the Great Depression, he was a young man with a family in those difficult years, he never threw anything away, acres of used tires and junk cars… and tractors.

Dub liked old things and quality.

If he found out something was made in Japan he would cuss and throw it in the trash. Thank God he went home before Chinese crap was a thing.

Dub made a statement one time that I will never forget. We were cruising down the road in his Ford pickup, he said “Chipper! They don’t make cars like they use to!”

I shyly said “No sir, they don’t”

Ol’ Dub laughed, uncharacteristically so… a deep belly laugh.

And said…

“THEY MAKE THEM A HELL OF A LOT BETTER!!”

Hmm, makes feel good about my poor boy Garmin setup in my V. The GTN 750 Xi does this easily and nicely.


Uh, hit G, go direct, done. All waypoints remain in the flight plan, not deleted. Back to D? Touch it, direct, done.


Apparently, if you buy the $16K box it works, and the $300K boxes it doesn't. Oh well.

My GTNs are dandy.

Mike C.

Probably helps to read the fine print!! That is probably true of my G3000 as well. When this issue has happened to me, there has been a bend in the flight plan at CARTR to the OGD VOR (yellow arrow). I usually get assigned CARTR at 13,000 and below 250 KIAS. But every now and then I get 25 nm north of OGD at 13,000 which is inside CARTR. Mystery solved

Going direct doesn't cancel or delete any waypoints in the flight plan on my GTN. They remain available to select again.

Even if the flight plan is entirely removed, it doesn't take long to reload it.

Say ATC goes "cleared XYZ and the ABC arrival" and you have NO flight plan entered.

Direct, enter airport ID, select procedure, ABC arrival, load, select XYZ waypoint, direct.

Really, not a big deal. I can do the above in 10 seconds. The direct entry keyboard and touchscreen makes things very fast and precise.

It would take me 100 nm to enter that on the UNS-1F I used to have. Ugh.


Somebody will care eventually.

Mike C.

Going direct doesn't cancel or delete any waypoints in the flight plan on my GTN. They remain available to select again.

Even if the flight plan is entirely removed, it doesn't take long to reload it.

Say ATC goes "cleared XYZ and the ABC arrival" and you have NO flight plan entered.

Direct, enter airport ID, select procedure, ABC arrival, load, select XYZ waypoint, direct.

Really, not a big deal. I can do the above in 10 seconds. The direct entry keyboard and touchscreen makes things very fast and precise.

It would take me 100 nm to enter that on the UNS-1F I used to have. Ugh.


Somebody will care eventually.

Mike C.

The G3000 coupled with the GFC700/710 is very powerful. You get lateral navigation, vertical navigation and can program the airspeed to run the autothrottles. All of that is user modifiable from what the database drops in as default (Published) numbers. But each update that increases capability also adds some complexity. Just takes a combination of time in the saddle, a little reading, and button pushing. Incredibly powerful. Some of the things it does, like if you get too slow drop the nose to preserve airspeed, while simultaneously adding power with the autothrottle, requires some systems knowledge. The fact that components of envelope protection and authrottle are always awake in the background are kind of new. But if you don’t know the systems and start fighting the plane can be bad. There was a recent fatal Cirrus accident with a student pilot. That, at least seemed like, had a trim runaway. There is some thought that he may have just been fighting the ESP. Curious to see that report. But you have to know the systems.

There are 3 major versions of the M600 and some minor variations. The basic G3000, the Nxi version called the G3000NG and the G3000NG with autothrottles and autoland. There are enough differences that you need some transition training between the versions. Not a lot, but some. I have flown all 3 versions, and it is interesting.

Again Mike we are NOT talking about going direct. You are going to point A-B-C-D-E-F-G
The reroute still wants you to go to A and B. Then skip to G. If you think ok. I’ll do A and B. And when I get over B I’ll just hit direct G you have shitty cockpit discipline. So I’m hoping that isn’t what you are saying to do. My reroute requires removing the points so the flight plan is always continuous and compliant. But when the next controller wants you to go back to the original route you need to replace the points. The old systems with scratch pad function made this much easier. When you have maybe 5000hrs using each of these then I’ll take your opinion as valid.
Again the 750s are great. Same with the G3000/5000. But anyone who flies them and has flown other systems will tell you there are some shortcomings in the interface. They could be awesome with a few changes. And I’m not the only one that thinks so.

It is a weird clearance to get an arrival where you follow the beginning, and the end, and skip the middle. What is the phraseology for that? The vastly more common instruction is cleared direct to a future waypoint already on the flight plan, that is cutting the corner.

If you do get it, there are two choices:

Delete C, D, E, F. Flight plan will go from B to G.

At B, go direct to G.

Since I pay attention to crossing fixes, which also can change altitudes and speeds, I'd probably do the latter. It is the simplest. You can condemn my method, but it actually is one based on discipline. You really shouldn't be passing waypoints without notice.


Reload the STAR takes 5 seconds, all waypoints back.

For fun, look at HYPER8 into KHEF. I've flown that one starting at BAF. 19 waypoints! Was kind of fun, actually.

I have never had any shortcut revoked by ATC once given. In the worst case scenario, I'll ask for a vector to give me time to set up.

I have had ATC clear me direct to a waypoint NOT on my flight plan. This has happened about a dozen times. Usually they confused which arrival I was on. The outcome is either no change to my previous routing, or change to the new arrival. Either is easily done on the GTN.

Mike C.

Mike, who the hell is talking about an arrival? Not me. Waiting for the point and then pressing direst is %#$@ cockpit discipline.
You get what 150hrs per year? Trust me clearances and re routes followed by go back to what you were doing happens. Last month I flew 100 hrs between work and my own planes. Been doing that for over 25 years. I have a little experience to draw from. I’ve also thought this doing IOE and done checkride. I’ve also read a ton about cockpit discipline as you put it and when it goes wrong. We have guys that do discipline their own way and think it’s better. Guess who gets more ASAP and deviations? Yup the cowboys. I don’t fly with you so seriously do what you think is best for you. But please do t preach your ways as best. The data doesn’t support that.

I know you really don’t get the difference between pro pilots and not but this makes some of it clear.
Pro pilots are trained to use time tested and proven methods. Some are better at following these procedures. And some are cowboys. Also known as shitty but trained as pro pilots. There is a reason NAV and altitude deviations are many many times lower in professionally flown operations. Professionally doesn’t just mean paid to fly.

Go ahead and use your best practices in the cockpit. But in this case you aren’t the smartest person in the room. I’m not either but being involved in the training and after reading many many ASAP reports I can say I am smarter on operating aircraft. If you’re not familiar with ASAP or ever seen literally hundreds it’s enlightening.

Well let’s see: Door 1 is shitty; and pragmatic common sense. Door 2 is anal. Excessively.

I’ll take door 1 every day.

Shingles, ratings, epaulets don’t dictate over common sense either.

And then there are the pro pilots that overfly their destination. What sort of cockpit discipline is that?