When numerous Aerostar owners said they wanted to add winglets to their airplanes we set about coming up with a design that would offer the maximum performance benefit that a winglet could deliver. We worked with people who have sophisticated computational fluid dynamics computer equipment that gives more accurate consistent results that you could achieve with flight testing. They have years of experience working with companies that sell million dollar winglets for high end jets. Their VS Aero program is a virtual wind tunnel and they can try changing the cant of the winglet or the angle of attack of the airfoil or just about anything you want to try to fine tune the design at a cost of a thousand dollars a run. We spent many more AMU’s than I want to remember developing the best winglet in general aviation. It is truly an “airliner quality” design. At climb speed and gross wt. the winglet reduced induced drag by 12%.
FAA test pilots have determined in back to back testing that the airplane climb performance is better with winglets. The stalling speed is lower with winglets. The demonstrated VMC is lower with winglets and stability and stall characteristics are better with these winglets. The FAA doesn’t care about cruise performance so that is not something that is required for certification. Our customers though, do care and I have tested the same airplane with and without winglets. At lower power settings I have seen a six knot increase in indicated airspeed but only a 3 knot increase in average ground speed, so I have reported three to four knots under certain conditions. Specifically on a 601P with intercoolers I saw a six knot increase in indicated speed at 24” 2200 RPM at 17,500 ft. At 170 KIAS the winglet airplane is always faster but only by a knot or so. When I tested the 601P we had perfectly smooth air and we did back to back climb tests starting the stop watch at 5000 ft. where the climb speed was stabilized, and climbed to 17,500 ft. Five days later with winglets the OAT averaged 6 degrees C hotter up to around 14,000 ft. and the time to climb to 17,500 ft. was within one second. So I believe the winglets will allow the airplane to climb at the same rate even though it is a 6 degree C hotter day.
We didn't take any credit for the stall and VMC improvements because we didn't think it was worth the cost of republishing all of the flight manual performance data for every model of Aerostar. We certified showing "as good as or better performance."

Jim,

I have an interesting idea. Forrest and I have similar 601P's except he has the winglets. He's flying all over the place it seems so have him come to KGNF at his pleasure and we will have a fly off.

We have a 150' wide, 7,000' long runway so we can load equally and take off side by side to 15,000', then set the same cruise settings and see what happens.

It's not a perfect test, but kind of like drag racing my Corvette as a kid, if you are looking at tail lights, you lost.

That ought to bump up BT readership on this thread.

Now understand, regardless of who wins, those chicken attractors aren't going on my airplane.

Jgreen

Talk all the %#$@ you want John, the winglets were the second thing I bought from those guys that blew my hair back- the American Aviation speed stacks and cowls added like 15-20 knots to my Cheyenne when I was a kid.

They know what they're doing over there.

Wow JG doesn't seem that words like that are necessary to express your thoughts and feelings about the winglets. I think it would have been sufficient to say "they are not for me" or "personally, I don't find they add to the aesthetics." I think the airplane looks fantastic without them. It looks great without the wing extensions too. I would however, like to have the added performance and there is no denying the fact that winglets improve aircraft performance; I jump back and forth between identical 767s, same -300ER with same engines, with and without winglets and you can definitely see the differences. We have different performance numbers for both and thus different flight planning. You can definitely feel it when you land.

TC. I run at the same altitudes, 8500 - 12500 in my 601B with intercoolers at 24" 2200 LOP and end up at 24-26 gph doing 200kts true. I would think in a non turbo 600 you should be able to fly the same altitudes WOT LOP and be around 200 true and 24gph.

"Talking %#$@?"

That is inappropriate my friend, completely. As was my use of the term.

I simply don't believe any of the claims made for winglets; not yours, not Mr. Christy's. That's not talking %#$@, it's my opinion. In the past, I read several engineering analysis of winglet performance that indicated no reasonable benefit was derived at the speed attained by piston twins. Yes, I'm trying to find those papers.

I've simply offered a fly off. That's not talk, %#$@ or otherwise. I see it as a unique opportunity to separate fact from fiction.

Jgreen

Joseph,

I apologize. You are right and I over stepped.

My offer on the fly off stands.

Beyond that, I will say no more other than report the results of the fly off, if it comes to pass.
And any similarly equipped 601P will suffice.

Jgreen

More winglets more chicks.

More winglets more chicks.

I love my winglets. Now I need to get some more chicks.

Be careful! That way lies madness!

I have followed this thread with mounting interest. In recalling my (and our) young days, there was always some hero from the other side of town that had heard about my car, and was sent over by his buddies to challenge my 1964 1/2 Mustang. The gauntlet was thrown, and before long, a whole bunch of dudes got together to witness the event.
The challenging party had a fuel injected Corvette that his rich banker daddy had bought him for high school graduation. He knew nothing about mechanics or driving, or power-shifting, but certainly bragged a great deal about his car and about his chicks. I mostly kept to myself.
I had bought my ride after many summers milking cows at the farm and driving semis over the road. I had found a wrecked Stude Hawk with a Paxton blower that I adapted to the Mustang, using a modified pressure cooker donated from my mothers kitchen. I shaved and ported the heads, added Jardine headers, a Shelby cam that I bought with $70.00 obtained by donating at the blood bank, traction bars welded by me, and 4:11 gears sending the grunts to used cheater slicks. I accepted the challenge, with the condition that the hoods were to be kept closed, three runs over a quarter-mile, and $1,000.00 would be the required entry fee, forfeitable to the winner. (In other words, put your money where your mouth is). At that time I was making $250.00 a month as an orderly at the county hospital, and didn't have many bucks.
There must have been some 50 people on that bright, festive Sunday morning gathered to see the massacre of that little Confederate Grey Mustang. A gorgeous doll (his, natch) dropped the T-shirt for the first run, which was dead even. The kids went wild for the second one; now bets were flying. The T-shirt waved; I could see him spinning his tires in a mad attempt to win again. I knew I cold have him, but I again allowed an even run. For the third run, his eyeballs were popping out of his head, and he demanded a doubling of the bet. I acted nervous, but finally gave in....
Chick drops the "flag"... I hole shot him at about 6,500 turns, modulating the pressure plate, keeping the cam in the sweet spot through the gears, and left him sitting in a cloud of dust and burned rubber. He left without as much as a wave; the winning money came from his dad in a check.
So John, it would appear that it is now your turn. No more pejoratives or unfounded claims. Of course, the sporting blood exacts an "entry fee", and the proper amount should be whatever these much-vaunted winglets cost, say $25,000.00. I would gladly travel to see an event such as this, and, being a champion of the underdog, will fall in your camp and cheer you on.
This will put an end to the discussion. I am sure that you can contribute the winnings to your favorite PAC, thus minimizing the tax impact.
The above is written with the expectation that all parties have spousal agreement for the possible sacrifice of community moneys in the name of truth and righteousness, and that those in the contest have full confidence in a winning mount.
Your response is eagerly anticipated.
Best,
TN

I'll race ya

Mr. Navar, I want to meet you.



First, the 180 story....then the horse....and now the car....and I like them all. I've known some unique guys.


I want to meet you.


You are my hero.




stan

Stan,

I have met Dr. Navar years ago and he is a wonderful person, with whom you share a medical specially. You should fly out to El Paso and meet him. OBTW when you see the 180 you will drool.

Jay

Guys,

I'm buried out here in San Diego.

I hope to prevail on Tuesday and add CFI to my certification.

I wasn't a great student when I was a student, age and life has reduced my aptitude for distraction, the heart is willing but the synapses are resistant.

If I'm successful, Dave gets the credit, if I'm not, it's on me.

At any rate, keep your bets in your pockets, for now, the fly off sounds fun, I'd love to participate, maybe at Max's next event, always good to have an audience.

My motors are pushing 2000 hours and the HF antenna doesn't help for speed but I'm game, if we can fuel to equal weights, we can do time to climb, and compare fuel burned, maybe Jim can come up with some events designed to highlight the differences between a winglets and a winglets-less aircraft.

Back to the books.