Lands itself..?

Use the A36 base design.

B36 wings
FADEC twin turbo 350 HP 550 (currently available)
Carbon Fiber with completely smooth airframe
Eliminate cooling drag with clamshell baffles and naca ducts on botton of cowl and louver on top for updraft, efficient cooling
Widen interior to match width of Saratoga
G2000 (Also offer stripped model with steam gauges and basic 550 for lowest possible price)
Parachute.

Some interesting grist for the automation discussion: http://www.motherjones.com/media/2013/0 ... automation

Legends? Winchester carbine and Colt Pistols. They look great in a gun collectors cabinets but everybody is shooting AR 15's and Glocks/other plastic guns these days.

Jesse,

You are going to get most of your wish.

The Good:

The G36TC which is currently flying with a testbed FADEC Turbo ISO550 and has the long range "B36" wings. The plane is going thru about it's third iteration of nose bowl and cowling tweaks, I don't think the final look has been decided.

The Bad:

It will not have an increase in cabin width and it will initially be offered with
the G1000 not the G2000. The price differential for the G2000 is about 50K and aside from the keypad not much improvement in functionality. Another consideration is the availability of G2000(it's not) and Beech doesn't want to hold up the delivery schedule.

The Ugly:

Beech is hopeful that deliveries can begin Q4 2014 but more likely it will be 2015 before production ramps up. So for all you guys flying 40 year old Beechcrafts that have expressed your "want lists" in a new Beechcraft start saving your pennies you are going to need about 95 million of 'em.

Best

This is exactly my point. I'm not bashing Beech. I love my plane, and you'll have to pry it out of my cold dead hands. I'm just not representative of most buyers of new. Beech has a great product, but it needs a significant "refresh" that still retains the "soul" of Beech, but brings the product into the 21st century that appeals to the "turnkey" buyer.

The new 911 is a perfect example of this. The new 911s are beautiful cars, and yet many Porsche "purists" lament what has happened to their brand. OTOH, I just test-drove a new 911 and it is absolutely unbelievable. It looks like a 911 should, but is a night-and-day leap forward in all of the new technology that is incorporated. If I had the $$$ I'd buy one of the new ones in a heartbeat, and wouldn't even consider an older one. This doesn't make me a "legacy Porsche" basher, I just think what they've done for their brand is outstanding.

Cirri are selling well because Cirrus is giving the new buyer what he or she wants. Is Beech doing that? Apparently not...

Could anyone guess at the breakdown of the 6000hrs required to build a Beech piston airplane?

That is about 750 man-days i.e. about 2 man-years.

That is completely outrageous.

Based on what I saw at say the Socata factory I would have put the figure at 1/10 of that. And the French are not fast workers by any measure!

How much are the workers paid, and what is the typical factory overhead per worker? I would think each worker costs c. $100k including overheads, which puts 6k hrs = $600k which is obviously too much.

2015 for the G36tc? Why? Do you know how much cool stuff will be out in 2 more years? They needed the G36tc 3 years ago.

Do any of you honestly think you could make a nickel manufacturing one of these airplanes? I'll even make it multiple choice:

Q: Can I make money manufacturing small piston GA airplanes?

A. No, or....
B. You're wrong.

What company in their right mind would mess with this? I am talking about the Cirrus G5 or G36, doesn't matter. Cirrus has had serious significant financial issues. They are now playing a shell game.

Turbines and Jets are where all of you would spend your time and effort.

Take this post with the good nature in which it is intended.

Tom,

I would disagree on the shell game. Multiple people I have met at Cirrus have stated if they did not chase the jet they would have had no issues with recession. When they chased the jet, money was flying all over the place and the company stopped focusing on improving the SR line and stopped the emphasis on lowering costs while improving quality.

This was a case of the visionary wanting to have a complete line the way Cessna does and bit off a lot more than the company could handle.

Tim

And, you have just identified why BT is not as influential to Beech R&D as some think it should be.

Regardless of our "good ideas," most people in this thread are not able or willing to plunk down a million dollars for a single engine piston aircraft no matter how many goodies are built into it. Like it or not, maybe -MAYBE- 1% of BT is a prospective customer for a brand new 2014 G36TC.

Please hit the poll in this thread so we can see who is actually willing to put their money where their mouth is.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=78508&view=unread#unread

I hope Beech survives, but I'm not hopeful if your source's price-point is correct.

And, you have just identified why BT is not as influential to Beech R&D as some think it should be.

Regardless of our "good ideas," most people in this thread are not able or willing to plunk down a million dollars for a single engine piston aircraft no matter how many goodies are built into it. Like it or not, maybe -MAYBE- 1% of BT is a prospective customer for a brand new 2014 G36TC.

Please hit the poll in this thread so we can see who is actually willing to put their money where their mouth is.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=78508&view=unread#unread

I hope Beech survives, but I'm not hopeful if your source's price-point is correct.

If I use your 1% of BeechTalkers, that's about 2100 prospective customers. That's about 2087 more potential customers than bought a G36 last year. My estimation from the cross section of BeechTalkers that I have met (I'm not keeping count but lets say 500) the percentage if probably closer to 20% could write a check for a $1M airplane if they wanted one. Another 30% could call the bank and have the check written if they really wanted one. That is a pretty good chunk of 21,000 Beechtalkers.

I just wish I could find a forum with 21000 people that needed a building built. BeechTalkers are already brand loyal. You don't have to sell them on Beech, just return their friggin phone calls and deliver an airplane in some reasonable period of time. If they really wanted to go the extra mile throw in some Tempest spark plugs and a nice Beech logo on the step!

Yeah, math was off. But you said 1%.

210 is pretty legit. Beech would be happy with 210.

Maybe a good way to measure is "How many folks here bought a G36?" If you ponied up for a G36, you'd probably pony up for a G36TC.

I think your math is off. 1% of 21,000 is 210. And I think even that number is a bit high for people who could and would stroke a $1M check to Beech for a new G36TC.