BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 May 2013, 09:41

Username Protected wrote:

I'm aware of several folks on here that have moved from a Cirrus to a G36 or Baron. Not sure as many folks are moving the other way except for Alejandro.

Your be surprised how many have - I can think of at least 4 from this site. They just stopped posting, I'm guessing because they knew it'd get as low as being called Justin Beibers

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 May 2013, 09:42

Username Protected wrote:

I've been saying this for years......

Fire everyone at Beech except for the 5 or so guys that build the airframes. Start an aftermarket company (like TAT) that buys the airframes and do a custom buildout for buyers. Add engine, TN, TKS, whatever avionics package the buyer wants, paint and interior. Done.

You think Beech would make more per copy? .....I bet not. :duck:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 May 2013, 09:45

Marc,

The TBM is probably my best answer, and that may really happen. I just don't fly the right missions for one right now, but that's likely to change. The problem in life is there is a million ways to spend a million dollars. I need to move aviation up in importance.

Back on the subject.....I really like the Cirrus improvements, but at nearly $850,000, it makes you want to reach deeper for options with a lot more performance.

Rick

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 May 2013, 09:47

Username Protected wrote:

I've been saying this for years......

Fire everyone at Beech except for the 5 or so guys that build the airframes. Start an aftermarket company (like TAT) that buys the airframes and do a custom buildout for buyers. Add engine, TN, TKS, whatever avionics package the buyer wants, paint and interior. Done.

You think Beech would make more per copy? .....I bet not. :duck:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 May 2013, 09:52

I hear ya.....but, IMHO, Beech would be better served by starting with a clean sheet of paper and doing it right....vs. a collogued mess of old and new. A filament wound fuselage would be first order of business....out with the metal can.....then go and design in all the wiz bang stuff....to include the latest and greatest safety features that sell to momma.....

oh, and it needs a bigger and better chute that always deploys. :coffee:

Username Protected wrote:

They'll make more than not selling any airplanes at all which is where they're headed.

My point of this thread is the thread title. How can Beech even begin to think they're gonna catch up at this point? Every year Cirrus has 5 new inventions in their airplanes and they're certified. Beech is still selling their 2005 model airplane.

No parachute
No TN or Turbo
No TKS
No keypad
No flir camera
No stick pusher
No wings level button
Little 10" screens and round steam gauge backups that look like crapola.

They would need to get most of this stuff certified and delivered in the next year to catch up. There's just no way. I don't think they even want to try.

Their supposedly new G36TC and G58TC they announced a couple years ago are already outdated at this point.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 May 2013, 09:52

Username Protected wrote:

Fire everyone at Beech except for the 5 or so guys that build the airframes. Start an aftermarket company (like TAT) that buys the airframes and do a custom buildout for buyers. Add engine, TN, TKS, whatever avionics package the buyer wants, paint and interior. Done.

How about we pool our collective BT resources, buy Beechcraft and do it? Who's looking for something else to keep them busy??

Of course, we all know the key to making a small fortune in aviation is starting with a large one. Break out your check books fellas!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 May 2013, 09:54

Username Protected wrote:

I hear ya.....but, IMHO, Beech would be better served by starting with a clean sheet of paper and doing it right....vs. a cologed mess of old and new. A filement wound fuselage would be first order of business....out with the metal can.....then go and design in all the wiz bang stuff....to include the latest and greatest safety features that sell to momma.....

oh, and it needs a bigger and better chute that always deploys. :coffee:

Oh, so you think Beech has years and years of money to develop this new plane?

If you're gonna do all that, just start a new company.

For the record, I like the Bo and Baron airframe. I don't think they need a carbon fiber version. They just need to get on the program with the engine and avionics goodies.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 May 2013, 09:54

Username Protected wrote:

Marc,

Back on the subject.....I really like the Cirrus improvements, but at nearly $850,000, it makes you want to reach deeper for options with a lot more performance.

Rick

This is what will stop me in all likelihood. By the time you spend this much money things like pressurization, more speed, more range start to be more important. For me the choice is used legacy airframe with those features, upgraded to the best avionics and engines available at that price point or lower, or suck it up and spend more to go with a TBM or Pilatus.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 May 2013, 09:54

The G36TC is supposed to have FIKI, FADEC turbo, upgrade to 315 HP, a G2000 with 15" screens, a keypad, an L3 Trilogy backup....including a B36 wing with bigger fuel tanks.

That would get them back in the game. Speculation of price put them right in between the Cirrus and the Matrix.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 May 2013, 09:54

Username Protected wrote:

How about we pool our collective BT resources, buy Beechcraft and do it? Who's looking for something else to keep them busy??

Of course, we all know the key to making a small fortune in aviation is starting with a large one. Break out your check books fellas!

We've discussed it here many times.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 May 2013, 09:55

Username Protected wrote:

The G36TC is supposed to have FIKI, FADEC turbo, upgrade to 315 HP, a G2000 with 15" screens, a keypad, an L3 Trilogy backup....including a B36 wing with bigger fuel tanks.

That would get them back in the game. Speculation of price put them right in between the Cirrus and the Matrix.

I'll believe it when I see it.

Nothing has a G2000 yet. So where they gonna get one?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 May 2013, 09:56

Username Protected wrote:

The G36TC is supposed to have FIKI, FADEC turbo, upgrade to 315 HP, a G2000 with 15" screens, a keypad, an L3 Trilogy backup....including a B36 wing with bigger fuel tanks.

That would get them back in the game. Speculation of price put them right in between the Cirrus and the Matrix.

Maybe. But I don't think so. They should focus on a SE turbo prop. Gasoline engines don't represent the future and I don't see how they beat Cirrus in the gee whiz department.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 May 2013, 09:59

24 Pages!! :bugeye:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 May 2013, 09:59

Username Protected wrote:

This is what will stop me in all likelihood. By the time you spend this much money things like pressurization, more speed, more range start to be more important. For me the choice is used legacy airframe with those features, upgraded to the best avionics and engines available at that price point or lower, or suck it up and spend more to go with a TBM or Pilatus.

Now that I've run my PC12 for 100 hours I can tell you this........

JetA is so much cheaper than AvGas (on average I pay under $5 a gallon)

PC12 is over 100 knots faster than my TN Bonanza

I don't believe I'm really paying any more to fuel my PC12 than I was my Bonanza. If I am, It's marginal.

The PC12 MX so far is much cheaper than my G36.

If you can get past the purchase price which to me is easy considering they hold their value so well, it's an easy transition.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 May 2013, 09:59

If you don't like Beechcraft, what are you here wasting our time? If you have something useful to suggest, everyone is all ears. But just to boil the ocean and throw around stupid suggestions, please stop wasting our time.

The Jeff's, need to create some category like they have for politics, call it beech bashing or suggestion box, or something other than being categorized under panel forum. I want to see the panel forum and the only way to get this out of the list is to ignore the entire forum.

Cirrus is so far out in front.......