Hey Thomas, I wondered what y’all ended up doing. There’s a lot of factors to consider, it’s easy to get tunnel vision and not consider the big picture. That’s part of the reason my client decided on the C90GTi/x, it’s close to a million bucks less!

I think we all agree that you don’t understand King Air and Vision Jet owners. This may come as a shock to you, but they have different mission requirements than you.

Whatever, those guys are idiots. Anyone who knows anything about airplanes knows you move to Indiana for cheap hangar prices an on-field shade tree mechanic and so that you can be as far as possible from anywhere desirable so that you can make use of your plane that requires 1,500nm missions to be efficient, and only fly in the direction and altitude of maximum headwinds, spend half of your waking life searching for used parts, and ground the airplane in October each year so you don't exceed the LUMP hours. What a bunch of marroons.

What's the going rate now for a -135A?

What's the going rate now for a -135A?

A few hours with the avionics sim fixes that. Should not be a barrier. The operating logic of Garmin panels carries over in large part.

My insurance had no issue with my plane being originally UNS-1F, then Garmin G700 TXi, and my mentor pilot had flown neither and flies a Bravo with a Primus 1000. Those systems are all VERY different, insurance didn't even blink.

Pro pilots are adept at handling avionics, its their job. The more modern, the more intuitive it is.

Lots of 525 pro pilots out there, must be some weird place that doesn't have any. I would definitely not advise against a 525 on the basis of lack of pro pilots, they are easier to find than King Air pilots, and generally of higher uniform quality. I would trust a day pilot more in a Citation than I would in a King Air.

Mike C.

A few hours with the avionics sim fixes that. Should not be a barrier. The operating logic of Garmin panels carries over in large part.

My insurance had no issue with my plane being originally UNS-1F, then Garmin G700 TXi, and my mentor pilot had flown neither and flies a Bravo with a Primus 1000. Those systems are all VERY different, insurance didn't even blink.

Pro pilots are adept at handling avionics, its their job. The more modern, the more intuitive it is.

Lots of 525 pro pilots out there, must be some weird place that doesn't have any. I would definitely not advise against a 525 on the basis of lack of pro pilots, they are easier to find than King Air pilots, and generally of higher uniform quality. I would trust a day pilot more in a Citation than I would in a King Air.

Mike C.

did you mean GFC700 autopilot? not for the V.

That's the part that doesn't ring true.

My experience is that getting a pro pilot crossed to another variant on the same type rating is rather easy, even from widely spaced variants like Bravo to C560V. They have different wing, avionics, deice, etc. Yet it was no problem.

Which underwriter has this unusual requirement? I'd like to inquire with them about this shift in policy.

When I get my recurrent, it is actually in a sim setup for a Citation 550. The sim is also setup with steam gauges and a GNS 430. Yet the insurance deems this okay. The only specific C560V stuff is a brief classroom session on differences. And off I go without a hitch. This would be odd in your world, apparently.


An actual example of having a pro pilot cross a variant on the same type rating. Was trivial. Did not require and actual air time.


Guess you missed the part where I discussed differences training and when it is required.


Except, of course, the actual real world experience getting a pro pilot insured in a new variant, which I did without the difficulty you encountered.

Anybody legal to fly a CJ1 who can't be easily insured in an M2 is very weird. I'm going to file this in the highly skeptical bucket pending further evidence.

Mike C.

That's the part that doesn't ring true.

My experience is that getting a pro pilot crossed to another variant on the same type rating is rather easy, even from widely spaced variants like Bravo to C560V. They have different wing, avionics, deice, etc. Yet it was no problem.

Which underwriter has this unusual requirement? I'd like to inquire with them about this shift in policy.

When I get my recurrent, it is actually in a sim setup for a Citation 550. The sim is also setup with steam gauges and a GNS 430. Yet the insurance deems this okay. The only specific C560V stuff is a brief classroom session on differences. And off I go without a hitch. This would be odd in your world, apparently.


An actual example of having a pro pilot cross a variant on the same type rating. Was trivial. Did not require and actual air time.


Guess you missed the part where I discussed differences training and when it is required.


Except, of course, the actual real world experience getting a pro pilot insured in a new variant, which I did without the difficulty you encountered.

Anybody legal to fly a CJ1 who can't be easily insured in an M2 is very weird. I'm going to file this in the highly skeptical bucket pending further evidence.

Mike C.

G3000 is a really powerful avionics suite, and fairly well follows the Garmin logic. The hardest part of learning it, is learning where some of the panels are hidden, and relearning that it is easier than the G1000. I sure would not want a pro pilot learning a G3000 at 400 knots with me in the back, though. I think it is a 20-30 hour transition to be reasonably slick with it and you will still pick up stuff beyond a thousand hours as you encounter much of the weird stuff that ATC throws at you.

One that can flub the best of them, is when ATC gives you crossing restriction say 20 miles from a fix in your flight plan, but there happens to be another waypoint in your flight plan between the along track offset waypoint and the crossing restriction. It can be done, but you won't get that situation often, maybe once in hundreds of hours, and I don't believe it is in the book. It can be done, but your first time you will be heads-down headscratching melting your brain with WTH???? Prob hand fly it the first time using an E6B. There are a lot of these low occurrence, high workload situations that are avionics specific.

Mike C - I have done a good bit of jet research. The issue seems to be more around hull value and limits.

A friend is buying a new pc24. For kicks, I submitted my info to see if I could get insured on it. 50mm policy. They would not write it single pilot. I have 2800 total time with most being turbine. He could have an exemption to at lowered liability to something insanely low (like 2mm smooth) if I was flying it SP then have the high limit with two pilots.

What I found fascinating is that the SIC requirement is essentially a pulse. My understanding is I could become an SIC on their insurance wo a full type rating and just ride up front and their existing pilot would get the higher limits.

This whole insurance debacle is causing them to look at other 2 pilot jets now. I keep telling them why would you slum around in a sub 5’ cabin with two pilots when you can have a full standup cabin, more speed, more range and a bathroom that is not an oragami trap. A Lear 60 kicks the heck out out of the pc24 in every way and costs over 5 years are surprisingly similar when you have to hire two pilots for both.

Super easy... rather than trying to go through the flight plan menu to enter the crossing altitude and vnaving to it, just bug the crossing restriction altitude, reduce power and adjust your VS until the rubber band meets the waypoint.

Is this really a problem? It's easy to do in my 10 year old GTN 750.