I wish that was the case here

we have an older gentleman with the most beautiful twin comanche I've ever seen. He can't get insurance anymore but I'll bet he could get insured in my deb. I've offered to trade him plane plus cash or straight up buy it, but he says he is keeping it because maybe his grandaughter will want to fly it someday.

His granddaughter is ~12

Lots of info regarding performance specs on Aztecs so after getting a decent amount of time in mine I thought I’d share my results. Given I have Garmin EIS it makes the data really precise rather than making guesstimates based on analog needles.

1969D model (with F nose) PA23-250. Normally aspirated. Engines at ~1700 hours. Two blade props. No de-ice at all. Shorter wingtips (aftermarket change?). I added micro VG. Standard injectors (no GAMI).

I’ve found best cruise speed and efficiency to be at 7-9k altitude. Haven’t taken it higher given I fly in the SE and don’t have a need to do so but that 7-9k range gives me what I’m looking for.

Full throttle all the way to cruise.

RPM 2300-2350 and FF at ~11.5 / side I’m at 160 knots TAS all day long. Last night I dialed RPM back to 2250 and got that fuel down closer to 11-11.2 and kept the 160 knots. This is LOP and hottest cylinders stay around 405-410. If they creep closer to 425 I can very slightly open the cowl flaps (maybe 10-25%) and shave 10-20 degrees off the CHT’s without any speed penalty.

So in a nutshell my NA bird is a 160 knot TAS plane at 23gph. I have experimented with trying to go faster by pouring more fuel and it’s a very bad ROI. I can fly 165 knots if I want to increase to ~13.5-14 gph / side. 5 more knots at a cost of 4-5 gph… yeah no thanks. Also at the higher fuel burns I battle hotter cylinders as well.

I can reduce my FF to 10.5 / side (further LOP) and see a drop of 3-5 knots so that’s a poor return for sure.

These measurements have mostly been pretty well under gross. Last night I was around 4500 lbs (5200 max gross) taking these numbers. Closer to gross I’d expect a penalty of a couple knots.

Just some food for thought. I’ve seen performance data that appeared all over the place. The book numbers from Piper seem like a pipe dream in my mind.

*** I will end by reiterating what I've said in prior posts - that I'm absolutely loving this plane. My family that has flown with me quite a lot all enjoy the Aztec over the Saratoga. The feedback I'm getting is that all 4 rear pax seats are more comfortable and preferable over any rear seat in the club seating arrangement Saratoga. All Aztec seats sit high and have great large window visibility with the rear most seats having more width and headroom as compared the Toga.

The 2nd engine has changed my safety profile a lot in that we are able to intentionally make comfortable night flights where I would not do that in my single. One of my common missions is going across the state to pick up my daughter and her fiancé from college and bring them home for the weekends. I'm no longer in panic mode with flight planning making sure flights are complete prior to sunset. Last night we cooked supper for the family and ate around 6pm Around 7:15 we headed the airport. By 7:45 we were in the air. My future SIL sitting right seat (wants to get his PPL once finished with school). My daughter comfy in a middle club seat and their 80 lb Golden Retriever (Ralph) enjoyed the rear bench to himself. With the Starlink mini on the glareshield there was no disconnect from below during the 1.2 hour flight to the other side of the state. I dropped them off safely and was back home and in bed by 10:45.

Right now no regrets in all the time and $ I've poured into the Aztec.

That's checks a whole bunch of boxes Brent. Kind of like a Saratoga, but with more comfort and the extra engine.

Brent has sold me. I'm now in the market for a good Aztec. Please DM me with any good examples coming up for sale. Thanks!

Waters warm

Also Brent’s plane is REALLY nice

Aztec can be fast too, even on hot days at gross weight. 174 KTAS at 8600 feet on 25 GPH hauling six people and 200 pounds of bags. This is just after leveling off from the climb, starting from a sea-level airport at 95 degrees OAT , so the CHT's will drop about 20-30 degrees in five more minutes.

Really impressive CHTs Glenn. I’m 28-29 GPH to keep cool at 170kts. Baffles could be better for sure mine need help

Glen, those numbers are awesome! 174 knots at 25 gph! What, if any, speed mods do you have and what model Aztec? and what power setting?

I have a B model, which is carbureted and has augmenter tubes instead of cowl flaps. But these numbers are obtainable on any well-tuned and rigged Aztec. There are only three "speed mods" available: Metro wing tips, flap gap seals, and the speed slope windshield. I have those, and they are worth about 4 knots together. The rest of the efficiency comes from control rigging, antenna clean-up, and CG management. I can get 181 knots on 28 GPH at 6500 feet. Or for economy, 165 knots on 20 GPH at 12,500 feet, or 160 knots on 18 GPH at 16,500 feet.

That's awesome! I have the metco tips (wasn't sure what they were called).

I tend to try and get the CG in the middle of the envelope (which is huge as we know). I will try loading it up more aft and see how that works out. When I install my PlaneAC air conditioner that should immediately help with that

Not much I can do to clean up the antennae as they're all needed.

I'd like all the airspeed I can get but there comes a point where the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

Those are all impressive numbers Glen! You've given me some lofty goals to chip away at.

Who make the flap gap seals? Never seen those for an Aztec.

I have the Arctic Air real a/c unit, it adds 42 pounds in the aft baggage. I carry nothing in the forward baggage, not even chocks, unless I have 5 or 6 people aboard.

Diamond Aire in Montana has nearly all the available PA23 STC's. Order the gap seals from them asap, they are likely to go out of business any day now.

I said five years ago and now we have proof. See what happens when fat girls get some lovin’?
It’s strange to me that I can’t remember the last time I’ve had a request for quote to repair an Aztec, for any reason. Well over a decade. I know there aren’t as many flying as there are Barons, but I think there’s a difference in pilots. I don’t know what it is.

When I was a kid, my best friends parents had a wood burned art piece hanging above the dining room table. It said “A plump wife and a big barn never did any man harm”, with appropriate artwork.

Don’t even know why I just remembered that.

This is an all time quote