I got rid of my MU-2 after we kept eating prop governors. They made an Aerostar wastegate look like nothing.

Did you ever find out why? That sounds like a somewhat unusual problem, at least, I hope that it is.

Forest:

Love your posts, but come on man. That $2900/hr includes almost $1000/hr for crew, $5+/gall fuel, $300/hr annual refurbishment costs.

Are you really just trying to get Mike C engaged?

Matt,

Thanks. (I try)

Valid point about the cost of jet fuel being a lot less today than 2008.

I took a quick look at those numbers, and the article, and figured some MU-2 Owners would show up to poke holes in those figures. Or not. (In Eric L.'s case)

My (unstated) point is/was:

If the cost of owning an Aerostar is giving pause, owning a turbine (any turbine) is going to positively explode your budget.

Even a MU-2.

Adam's effort to get his Turbine Commander demostates the time (and money) it takes to get a neglected turbine airworthy again. I would never had his patience with owning a plane that didn't fly (much).

Bottom line:

In the Aerostar's segment of general aviation, cost of ownership is a fuzzy term, the numbers vary depending one who is asking, one's SO is going to get told a different story than one's accountant, both numbers are true but it all depends on which bills go in which pile.

Personally, I don't do the math.

There is no way owning one of these machines makes sense, but climb in taxi out and push the power up, and the true nature of the equation becomes clear.

I can honestly say, my Marquise was 100% dispatch reliable and the annuals ran near what my C421 would cost, sometimes less.

Stewart I think you're getting the wrong idea about the wastegates - yes they're $4k each, but I don't think you are going to be buying NEW wastegates every 500 hours. Overhaul every so often, yes - but in my research it's not like these things go out often enough to be crippling.

I think the point Forrest is making is that they are examples of items that, if neglected, can make an airplane that is "up to snuff" to the casual observation a money pit when dug into a bit deeper.

As to your question on annual maintenance budget, I plan $18k / year for all non-upgrade maintenance, not including engine and prop reserves. So far I am well below that, knowing that every so many years I'll have to swallow some big items and the average will come back into line with budget.

Learn to IRAN the turbos and wastegates every 500 hours and they will last a lot longer. This is what multiple mechanics told me, and seems to be proven out on a few acquaintances' Cirrus as well.

Tim

Sounds reasonable. Thanks.

Stewart I think you're getting the wrong idea about the wastegates - yes they're $4k each, but I don't think you are going to be buying NEW wastegates every 500 hours. Overhaul every so often, yes - but in my research it's not like these things go out often enough to be crippling.

I think the point Forrest is making is that they are examples of items that, if neglected, can make an airplane that is "up to snuff" to the casual observation a money pit when dug into a bit deeper.

As to your question on annual maintenance budget, I plan $18k / year for all non-upgrade maintenance, not including engine and prop reserves. So far I am well below that, knowing that every so many years I'll have to swallow some big items and the average will come back into line with budget.

Did you ever find out why? That sounds like a somewhat unusual problem, at least, I hope that it is.

At the time I had mine they were no longer making the prop governors and you could only get rebuilt governors. I don't know if that has since changed but there was something tricky about the rebuilding process. I would put a governor on the plane and it would fly fine and then about a year later the props would start wandering. The solution was another rebuilt governor each time. At one annual meeting of the MU-2 owners I talked about it to the group and I was not the only one that had such an experience. It was so frustrating to me that I ended my MU-2 ownership. It might have been solved by now -- I don't know.

I owned it for four years and bought four governors during that time.[/quote]

Eric,

I think your comment/experience hits on the real reason you can't fly a TB for the price of a single. Some want to focus on overhaul cost of engines from high end pistons to TB's. Engine reserve is really a small part of the maintenance pie in any airplane.

Systems. Systems. Systems. That is where the cost of TB ownership runs away from piston maintenance. TB systems cost, of every sort, and I use your prop governor as an example, will dwarf a piston every time.

Nobody has studied the issue with more fervor than I have. I badly wanted to buy a turboprop fifteen years ago and the reliable numbers simply said "NO". Conklin and DeDecker has been keeping cost records on airplane "forever" and though you can pick at their individual numbers on an individual airplane, the relevant numbers are reliable. Long term operating numbers on any TB ten years ago were more than double my A*. For me, simply not enough sugar for my nickel.

The whole argument reminds me of when gambling came to Mississippi. All these folks going to the casino and coming back winners because THEY understood how to beat a slot machine. After awhile you didn't hear much about their trips and didn't see any moving into mansions either. Maybe not a "good" comparison, but that's what comes to my mind anyway.

As my daddy used to say: "Wishing don't rewrite the rules."

Jgreen

No governor problems in this quarter- I just passed my second year of ownership with my MU2 this past November and here's what I've had to do in two years and 700 hours:

- goofy ass slip ring on the right side delaminated and needed to be replaced for the prop heat to work. Part showed up next day, took about 45 minutes to install (thanks Sensenich!), off I went. $3500

- a part in the landing gear snapped on a perfectly normal landing; part showed up next day, took two hours to install. $5000

- fuel pump. Part showed up next day, three hours install. $2500

- various brushes for starter generators, grease for jack screws, miscellaneous at inspections. Inspections run ~$12.5k all in.

I loved my A*. It's a wonderful airplane. But the Mits is a far more capable machine. Also worth note- my A* was constantly having some issue or another, and I didn't skimp on MX or defer MX at all- ever. It just has a lot of moving parts. It's true the Mits has more expensive parts, but you a) generally replace them proactively during inspections, and b) the systems are just more robust on turbine aircraft propulsion systems. I use my bird to work. It's not like the A* was always busted, but it didn't have near the dispatch reliability that the MU2 has.

I feel like the airframe of the A* is built well, I think it's just the propulsion that causes it to be a bit of a pain. Of course, my Mits with fresh P and I, upgrade panel, and fresh engines is a $700k machine and you can get in a similarly top notch A* for half that, so there's no free lunch.

Also, Forrest is quite right. The Mits flys like a dump truck, lol. But it's rock solid in turbulence and I wouldn't trade mine for anything. One last thing- turbine propulsion reliability and copious compressed air mean much more reliable ice protection. Couple that to a far more aggressive climb rate and you're launching with confidence into a lot more ice. Also, being at FL280 often has meant for me looking out the window and seeing clear blue around and the storm below, especially if I use my head and launch in the AM.

200 hours in, the MU2 is costing me 445 an hour to run. That is the sum of every dollar I have paid this far divided by hours flown. I am not counting engine reserves as I have very long time to go. This included 100 and 200 hour inspections along with a failed boost pump and a few other minor squawks. The plane is a mini airliner, you can't compare the build quality to piston anything.

I'm at $650/hr for 100 hours not counting engine reserve. Mines in for the 600 hour now and so far the only thing not expected is the copilot side window which new cost me $4800.00. Turbine ownership is more than piston ownership but for what you get, it's worth it. It's not 2 to 1 but the benefits and capabilities are way more than double.

Craig, Anthony, James,

I envy the three of you and your $ numbers make sense.

My 601P operates for less by a meaningful amount and fills 90% of my operational needs.
A surprise failure with the A* will be a lot smaller surprise than your MU-2's.

Bottom line is that between the Cub, C-180, and the A*, I'm at my aviation budget limit.

Jgreen