BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Nov 2014, 22:47

This is not about reality. This is about one (wifely) persons perception.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Nov 2014, 22:51

Username Protected wrote:

On takeoff if I lose the engine in the Bonanza I would have to put her down, with a Baron I would just fly away.

Oh wow. I didn't know it was so easy. I wonder why prop twins crash so regularly then?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Nov 2014, 22:54

A Baron is a perfectly reasonable choice in the sub 600k budget. Forget the turbine talk, there is no 600k TBM 700 and in the Meridian you can pack your toothbrush and in the Jetprop you can pack your toothbrush and wife's handbag. The next rung on the ladder up would be a 421 at twice the operating cost.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Nov 2014, 23:00

Username Protected wrote:

This...http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/BEECHCRAFT-58P-BARON/1979-BEECHCRAFT-58P-BARON/1325743.htm

how much is this one?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Nov 2014, 23:04

Username Protected wrote:

On takeoff if I lose the engine in the Bonanza I would have to put her down, with a Baron I would just fly away.

Oh wow. I didn't know it was so easy. I wonder why prop twins crash so regularly then?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Nov 2014, 23:06

Username Protected wrote:

This...http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/BEECHCRAFT-58P-BARON/1979-BEECHCRAFT-58P-BARON/1325743.htm

how much is this one?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Nov 2014, 23:09

Username Protected wrote:

Same old story you hear over and over about twins being safer. She is very nervous flying in a single engine airplane.
On takeoff if I lose the engine in the Bonanza I would have to put her down, with a Baron I would just fly away.
The Baron climbs faster, further and higher and can carry more weight. That is what I like most about this thought of a change.

You may want to check the useful load of a newer Baron. Many of them are around the 1200-1300 lb range which gives you no more payload than a Bonanza and maybe less. Also, at gross, you will not just "fly away." They do climb ok with an engine out, but a B55 IO-550 will a out climb a G58 by 50% on one engine.

My wife was the same way, so I bought a Baron, then a Duke, then a King Air. The fear did not go away. So, instead of finding an airplane for her, I bought one for me. I now go 30% faster on 50% less fuel and enjoy it better. In fact, she even rides in the new plane. Buy what YOU want.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Nov 2014, 23:10

for 600K, you could get a VERY tricked out MU2.

It'll probably be cheaper to operate (per mile) than the Baron.

You could probaly even get one of those Older Eclipse.. :shrug:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Nov 2014, 23:30

Username Protected wrote:

for 600K, you could get a VERY tricked out MU2.

It'll probably be cheaper to operate (per mile) than the Baron.

You could probaly even get one of those Older Eclipse.. :shrug:

I have to agree. Definitely would go towards the MU-2 or a Commander at that price point. It is a pretty P baron however.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Nov 2014, 23:33

Quote:

Actually, the Bonanza has a payload of 864lbs. and the Baron has a payload of 1,317lbs
Think about it, they both have the same fuselage and the wing on the Baron is 14" longer
The Bo has 300hp and the Baron has 600hp.
I like my chances in the Baron.

Greg, that is not correct math.

First, what do you mean by Payload? Most Bonanzas have "useful load" (weight available for fuel, passengers, and bags) of 1100-1200 lbs and they hold 480 lbs of fuel with standard tanks, so you can legally put in roughly 700 lbs of people and bags and go about 5 hours maximum if you are LOP. A new G58 Baron might have 1400 lbs "useful load" if you are lucky - most will be less. To get 4.5 hours LOP (Slightly faster so I adjusted down 30 minutes) and reserve you need at least 725 lbs of fuel which puts you at less than 700 lbs of people and bags. The only way you will get more useful load is in an older B-E55 Baron. Some of them have useful loads of 1800 lbs and are faster than a new 58. In fact, a TN36 will usually have a useful of 1400+ and is faster than the Baron on much less fuel.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Nov 2014, 23:38

Username Protected wrote:

for 600K, you could get a VERY tricked out MU2.

It'll probably be cheaper to operate (per mile) than the Baron.

You could probaly even get one of those Older Eclipse.. :shrug:

I have to agree. Definitely would go towards the MU-2 or a Commander at that price point. It is a pretty P baron however.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Nov 2014, 23:47

Greg,

Of course only you will be able to determine what is best for yourself and your growing family. But todays G58's have about 1500lbs of useful load, climb about 1500fpm and have good range. I'm sure there are other older barons that likewise have good utility.
The issue of new verses used has been beaten to death I'm sure you'll figure out what makes sense for your familiy's situation. The Baron is very capable aircraft and fun to fly.

Be cautious about the idea that you can buy an old turbine that once cost millions and now that it's run out can be purchased on the cheap. Sure you can buy them cheap but you can't operate them cheap.

Best wishes

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Nov 2014, 23:53

Username Protected wrote:

Greg,

Of course only you will be able to determine what is best for yourself and your growing family. But todays G58's have about 1500lbs of useful load, climb about 1500fpm and have good range. I'm sure there are other older barons that likewise have good utility.
The issue of new verses used has been beaten to death I'm sure you'll figure out what makes sense for your familiy's situation. The Baron is very capable aircraft and fun to fly.

Be cautious about the idea that you can buy an old turbine that once cost millions and now that it's run out can be purchased on the cheap. Sure you can buy them cheap but you can't operate them cheap.

Best wishes

G58 with boots, Radar, and De-Ice with 1500 lbs useful? I have never seen one.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Nov 2014, 23:55

Username Protected wrote:

You speak the truth Adam. No oil changes on a turbine. I still swear my PC12 is cheaper to run than my Bonanza with all the BS MX and expensive annuals. I'm also paying only $3.50 a gallon for JetA and it's dropping fast.

You can get a Mustang for a little over a million.

Jason,

How much is a little? Most of what I see are over 1.5m. Would seriously like to know if there are Mustangs out there for less than 1.5m.

Regards,

Mark

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Nov 2014, 23:59

Username Protected wrote:

Quote:

Actually, the Bonanza has a payload of 864lbs. and the Baron has a payload of 1,317lbs
Think about it, they both have the same fuselage and the wing on the Baron is 14" longer
The Bo has 300hp and the Baron has 600hp.
I like my chances in the Baron.

Greg, that is not correct math.

First, what do you mean by Payload? Most Bonanzas have "useful load" (weight available for fuel, passengers, and bags) of 1100-1200 lbs and they hold 480 lbs of fuel with standard tanks, so you can legally put in roughly 700 lbs of people and bags and go about 5 hours maximum if you are LOP. A new G58 Baron might have 1400 lbs "useful load" if you are lucky - most will be less. To get 4.5 hours LOP (Slightly faster so I adjusted down 30 minutes) and reserve you need at least 725 lbs of fuel which puts you at less than 700 lbs of people and bags. The only way you will get more useful load is in an older B-E55 Baron. Some of them have useful loads of 1800 lbs and are faster than a new 58. In fact, a TN36 will usually have a useful of 1400+ and is faster than the Baron on much less fuel.

Hey Todd, The math was directly from the Beechcraft brochures.

Payload is passengers, cargo and baggage.
Beechcraft reports that the BO has a useful load of 1,033 and the Baron has a useful load of 1524.
If I were to keep the A36, I would certainly add the turbo when the engines run out. I know that when I had 800 pounds of passengers and light on fuel I barely made it over the trees.
Since then I am very cautious about weight.
My mechanic says the Baron climbs much faster than the A36. Would you agree that the Baron could hold one more person?
I did look at the B55 and I really like the barn doors on the Baron 58 much easier to load people, cargo, etc. I think the B55 is actually smaller than the 58.
I truly appreciate your thoughts.
Thanks Much,Greg

Baron or Bust!