Two runway overruns, a collision with parked vehicle and a gear-up, in addition to some mechanical issues (none leading to an accident). No fatals. That is a pretty damned good record for the segment of aviation in which Eclipse plays.

John- I was saying 100 hours is insane for a guy who is currently flying a 58P and KA90. You are right though, this school said the lowest time guy they got typed came into the program with about 250 hours total time. He needed about 200 hours in the airplane before the checkride (I think I heard that correctly).

David- Yes, I was told the same about the fed being tougher on you than a DPE. I am okay with that though. My instructor said their mock check ride is going to be tougher than the actual one. I don't want to spend $2,000 for my examiner to 'take it easy on me.' I think I would be doing myself a bigger disservice than wasting an extra $2k.

BTW, I just got to read the bio on one of the two instructors (both former naval aviators). This guy was the commanding officer and flight leader of the Blue Angels (and Vietnam combat pilot). I know it is going to be intense hard work, but I am looking forward to flying with him.

I penciled in about $800.00 per hour to operate the Eclipse wet. At just about twice the speed, yes, thats close to Baron operating costs. That does not include debt service, and the insurance will vary. Our insurance went down from year one to year two-because of a decrease in hull value.

The Eclipse is a brand new airplane so it should be cheeper to operate than a twenty year old airplane-IOW it will cost more and more as it gets older and more stuff breaks. Again, written into the type certificate and the new companies approval are exclusive agreements with parts suppliers. You can only buy parts from Eclipse. As an example of how hard it is to work with the airplane, the batteries are in the nose. A check of the batteries is required every year (it IS an all electric airplane). The sealant for the nose cover costs about $500.00, has no "hold over" time-once you mix it you must use the whole tube-and is only available at a very few places...order it ahead of time, but if you have an unscheduled battery change you will be waiting for a tube of very special sealant to be shipped to you.
That is just one example of how vexing it can be to try to maintain these airplanes. Some owners are out there using their airplanes without the required battery checks.

Mentoring is also written into the type certificate. 20 hours was the "standard", but that number is flexible. I did it in about 7 or so. There are only a few mentors available, but there are only a few airplanes as well. A check ride with the FAA is ill advised.

One of the reasons the accident record is as clean as it is is because the original Higher Power training was very thorough, and the trainees were very very dedicated. It should be of note that Higher Power lost it's approval to train Eclipse pilots for reasons that we still don't know.

I should add that once all the upgrades are done, the airplane is a joy to fly. Autothrottle would be nice, but even without it the (nearly) finished Eclipse in the hands of a properly trained and experienced pilot is a good thing. The workload has been reduced, but you must understand that it is a different airplane to fly. When treated well it will treat you well. I just don't know about Eclipses' future, or if it has one. We know the future of Barons and Citations-their past predict their future.

I should also note that this discussion is in a way historic. The Eclipse WAS an attempt to revolutionize General Aviation. It failed, but much of the blame rests with the economic climate. Much of it (the blame) also rests with the overly optimistic personalities involved-builders as well as buyers. It should also be noted that many many people lost from $5000 to $750,000 in advanced deposit monies. It all could have worked if only...

Do you say that for the same reasons as described above? That they will be tougher on me than a DPE?

Oh, and one more thing. It is worth noting that the three people in this discussion who actually have any experience with the Eclipse have moved on to other things.

[quote="Mike Sobota
This seems to indicate that the maintenance costs are not off the charts.[/quote]

Mike,

I went back and calculated real world numbers from my records of the 3 Eclipse jets I managed.
Numbers are based on 150 flight hours per year, which I think would be pretty typical for most non commercial operators. I did not include the cost of hangering

Direct hourly operating costs
Life limited components 80.00 per hour
Engine Pratt ESP gold 200.00 per hour
Fuel @ 5.00 per gallon 375.00 per hour

total direct operating cost 655.00 per hour

Indirect hourly operating costs
Insurance 15,000.00
Recurrent training 8,400.00
scheduled maintenace 13,470.00

total indirect operating cost 245.00 per hour
unscheduled maintenance 350.00 per hour

Total hourly operating cost 1250.00

Weights and useful loads

Max takeoff weight 5990
empty weight 3740
max useable fuel 1697
useful load with full fuel 553 lbs

Realistic range operating up and down the east coast with VFR reserves 850 NM

So how in the world does somebody rent one for $900/hr wet?

Thanks David for adding more data to the discussion.



Mike,

I went back and calculated real world numbers from my records of the 3 Eclipse jets I managed.
Numbers are based on 150 flight hours per year, which I think would be pretty typical for most non commercial operators. I did not include the cost of hangering

Direct hourly operating costs
Life limited components 80.00 per hour
Engine Pratt ESP gold 200.00 per hour
Fuel @ 5.00 per gallon 375.00 per hour

total direct operating cost 655.00 per hour

Indirect hourly operating costs
Insurance 15,000.00
Recurrent training 8,400.00
scheduled maintenace 13,470.00

total indirect operating cost 245.00 per hour
unscheduled maintenance 350.00 per hour

Total hourly operating cost 1250.00

Weights and useful loads

Max takeoff weight 5990
empty weight 3740
max useable fuel 1697
useful load with full fuel 553 lbs

Realistic range operating up and down the east coast with VFR reserves 850 NM[/quote]

I saw a Eclipse 3 or 4 years ago in Sedona with the left main gear collapsed and folded under it.

I saw a Eclipse 3 or 4 years ago in Sedona with the left main gear collapsed and folded under it.

what is the story behind that?

Not sure how you plan to avoid icing conditions in a jet. You will typically find them on almost every flight, with few exceptions.

A couple of reasons why you may be able to find a plane for 900 wet that is 1250/hr to operate. It's the same incremental cost accounting that we all use when we only count the fuel for a particular trip and disregard calendar year based (fixed) expenses.
At 655 DOC, 900 wet puts 245/hr towards that upcoming annual bill. Also, with those hours counting as 'business use' for the owner, it makes it easier to justify the plane as a business asset.

Do you say that for the same reasons as described above? That they will be tougher on me than a DPE?

That must be the guy, since I was told he is the only FAA inspector authorized in the Eclipse.