I have also heard those stories. Not for me thanks. That's why I carry a spare exciter (along with spare igniters).

With no exciter, it won't start no matter what you do.

The MU2 (and 441) can do a "buddy" start where the prop wash from a plane in front can spin up the prop. The C-130 can also do this.



Mike C.

Mike C, we all know how much you love your plane. That’s a good thing. However your endless criticisms of anyone who chooses a different plane for a similar mission are tiresome. Can’t you just respect the right of others to make different choices for their reasons? Just as you might think their reasons are wrong, they may think your reasons for choosing your plane are wrong.

Isn’t freedom of choice a great thing.

Back to the original questions........

As we always say, it depends on the mission.
Need more than 1,100nm on a regular basis?
Carrying 4 or more people, or mostly by oneself or one other?
CJ3 & M2 same tube.. one is just stretched.

M2 in the Citation line, "least capable" when it comes to speed, service ceiling
and range. But most balanced aesthetically. Other models look like dachshunds.
But they go faster, higher farther, with more payload. For most business trips, unlikely that the differences will be significant, except maybe for number of seats. So what do these gents need?

And you know all of these questions. Mission, budget, preferences.

Realistically, for trips 600nm or fewer, not sure that there will be much difference in performance. Longer trips, more people, possibly. At the same time, just did 1,458nm non-stop yesterday in the M2 from KSVR (just south of SLC) to KFKL in Western PA. Not much of a tailwind 35-45kts, 3.9 on the Hobbs. Plenty of fuel reserve. Three pax, full baggage and the 120# of nose ballast required for single pilot ops, since I was by myself on first leg of journey out and last leg of journey home.

New vs used?
Budget, appetite for maintenance and service.

We have bought two planes new. Many would think that is crazy. But we like the security of warranty, no worries about prior history or owners. Fewer (hopefully) maintenance and management issues. But that comes with a premium. All depends on how your clients want to spend their time and money.

This thread resonates with me. My cj2+ (which has a g3000) is more than I need for 90% of my missions now and I have thought about an m2, but I just like having lots of fuel and 450.

Jason

What a great airplane!

I get why Textron wants to just build the CJ3 and not both, but a new M3 would be an awesome airplane!

Is there now a STC for adding G3000 to the Cj2+?

Is there now a STC for adding G3000 to the Cj2+?

I've read about the "Alpine Edition" G3000 conversion for the CJ2+, I've never heard of or seen one actually accomplished. If you have it, I'd love to see a picture!

I'm currently retained by a client to find a CJ2, their goal is to upgrade it to the G600TXI package upon closing. They are shifting their focus to an early year M2 as it can be had for roughly what they'd be in a CJ2 + G600TXI for. To them, it's worth the tradeoff in range to have the G3000, better integrated autopilot panel, have Fadec, modern interior, and still get a 400 knot cruise speed. 10 years new, likely much less airframe time as well.

Sidenote, I'm sick of Collins. We have had numerous screens fail on our CJ2, there is a known issue with the power supply on the -208 screens where they've been burning out in 5 years or less. Collins will only upgrade your -208 to a -209 for $42k rather than simply repair yours. That, and their other ridiculously expensive avionics. Supporters will say "it's airline grade equipment", well, I sure hope airline equipment doesn't fail every few years. Garmin replaces screens at literally 1/10 the cost of PL. I have never had a Garmin screen fail on me, we had an internal fan fault once on the M2. Garmin sent a new screen for $2,800.

Furthermore, we purchased a used screen from Duncan. The owners wanted me to see what Collins would charge to repair their burned out screen. We sent it in, no work order signed etc. Collins came back and said "$42k for the upgraded screen, or you owe us $24k for looking at your screen". Can't make this BS up. We argued and got it down to $3k for the "evaluation" which we still didn't agree with.

-The Citation Jet Exchange

Collins is trying to compete with Honeywell!

How many CJ2s were done with the g3000?

Chip-

One.

I was told by a long time Textron sales rep that the conversion generated so much interest, that they decided not to market the conversion, for fear it would eat into new aircraft sales of the M2 and CJ3+.

I think they consider that factor when allowing Garmin to do any major retrofit.

Corey,

I know you know the airframes, but if your client wants any input from a former M2 owner, I’d be happy to offer up my opinions. I had a 2021 M2, that had the upgraded G3000 that comes with serials 1048 and above. The upgraded boxes allow for future enhancements, such as GWX8000. You can upgrade the avionics on older M2s, but it comes with a $300K prictag. The M2 has a very limited full fuel payload, and even 1,000 nm trips with a headwind can get you thinking about fuel reserves.

I was 75% on the route to buying a CJ2, with the full Garmin panel, new paint, and new interior. After getting the new avionics, even with things like GWX8000 radar and CPDLC, the retrofit CJ2 would have a payload that approached the CJ3+, with a lot more range, and FL450. Honestly, I don’t think the FADEC matters much, and with a full retrofit, you get a new looking plane, with colors and designs exactly to your taste. All said and done, I would have put over $1M back in my pocket, and had morecplane to show for it.

Ultimately, I found a nice value 3+, at a price I could stomach, so I gave up on the CJ2. I still did a full paint and interior, and I did the G3000 upgrade, so I have a plane that looks and feels like brand new, at about 1/2 the cost of new. For an an equivalent capital cost, I’d rather be in the CJ2 than the M2. Operating costs are so close between any of the late model CJs, that I don’t think that should be a big part of the equation.

Drop me a PM if you’d like any recent input. I did all of this in the last 6 months. I only owned the M2 for a little over a year. The M2 is a gateway drug.