Chuck would the speed increase make an M700 appealing to you? Or doesn't matter at this point?

The speed would interest me a little, and the short field (under 1000 ft take off and ground roll) as well as the increased climb. But a little premium on price from my increasingly dated steed. .

An older jet is dramatically cheaper than a new SETP. The cheapest one now is the M700 Fury for about $4.5M typically equipped with taxes.


Mike C.

You are right, I missed that. Seems to be about $2.5M.


It has been a very weird year. No clear reason or common thread among them.

Two of them are dual engine flame outs, but apparently for different reasons.

The other odd thing is that all four accidents this year involve two crew airplanes. No single pilot jets at all.

Other years there can be zero fatal accidents.

Jan 20 was a Russian registered Flacon 10 in Afghanistan, dual engine flame out. Likely just ran out of fuel.

Feb 7 was a Hawker 900XP in Utah doing stall testing.

Feb 9 was the Challenger dual flame out in Naples, seemingly due to inadvertent idle cutoff.

Mar 10 was the Westwind with no obvious reason yet.

So many jets fly so many miles that when we have this many accidents, it is big news.

In January, there were 3 fatal accidents of turboprops, including a JetProp (PS-MTG in Brazil).

Mike C.

Yeah kind of a weird year. But in the turbine market, prop or jet, when you see an accident, usually just need to look at the pilot, not the airplane, because they are all so very capable, and very reliable. I personally don’t think for single pilot turbine operators, pilot for pilot, mission for mission that there is a measurable difference in safety. In these types of aircraft, the outcome of the flight will be dictated by the PIC. Faster, more complex, less forgiving airframes just require more pilot. The 737 is a very safe airframe as flown by the airliners. But if you put that airplane into the general Aviation masses, flying GA mssions, there would be mayhem. Because it’s complex, hard to fly, and very unforgiving of poor technique.

The ability of the PIC always makes a difference regardless of aircraft type.

Having said that anyone can make a mistake.

Fully agree. Just remarking that the redundancy and reliability of most turbines versus most pistons means that the airframe is less likely to leave you with a significantly degraded machine. But certainly applies to all airplanes. Something as simple as losing avionics in IMC. Some piston aircraft run pretty slim redundancy. My plane has 4 glass panels that can function as a full service PFD. 3 separate ADCs, 3 separate ADHRS, 4 separate busses that can distribute power to one or more of the panels, 4 separate power supplies, and 2 separate pitot static systems. So the chances of being blind in IMC is not 0, but is extremely extremely unlikely. Do I still practice with degraded systems, of course. At least once a year. The plane can be flown even if the 2 elevator cable’s separated, by using the trim, that has 2 separate pushrods, that has both electric and backup manual control of the trim. I practice flying with just trim as well, but losing the cables is not a necessarily fatal event. The plane can be flown with loss of aeileron cables, using the rudder to turn. Practice that as well, there are POH procedures for that that describe how to do it. Turbines are just more engineered. Part of why they are ridiculously expensive.

I budget 35k or so a year for the baron for 75-100 hours per year. I need to check on insurance i guess before i do any shopping. Aside from capital cost i think i could do do same hours in a jetprop for 40k? Is that reasonable?

Yes indeed call your insurance broker and confirm pricing on the Jetprop before getting too far down the aisle - for some it can be eye watering. That said there are some underwriting markets that won't quote the Jetprop converted PA46 or that won't write 'new' to them Jetprop policies. If you have 'good overall' time likely you won't have issues. London Aviation Underwriters has been one of the top 1 or 2 insurers of Jetprops based on my extensive experience in the space - even with low time and/or turbine transition pilots.

Good luck your proposed aircraft transition.

I would think 50Kish, but going to be lumpy and depends on your unique situation. For 90 hours about equal to 125 hours on the Beech.

Fuel 38 gph in the block at 4.70/gallon (179/hr) (16,100)
Insurance 1.5% hull with good retract experience (15,000 on 1 mil airframe)
Maintenance average 20 K per year
Databases 1K
Not sure about taxes, hangar, ramp, etc.

That looks like about 52Kish.

For the JetProp, how different are the generations?i expect there’s a notable difference in the original year of the aircraft (e.g. a converted 1989 base vs a 1998 base), but is there a substantial difference in the JetProp based on conversion year (e.g. converted in the 90s vs converted in the 2000s)?

One big difference, outside of mild cosmetic improvements in the interior, in mid 1999 the Mirage came with a stronger spar that is part of the Meridian wing. I also think the certified gross weight is a little bit higher.

Interesting discussion about jets vs Turboprop. I sold my C510 Mustang I flew for ten years and bought a Blackhawk C425 and have never looked back.

Do explain why?

As far as the conversion itself, they are all pretty similar. Engine model of course, these three were used: -21 , -34 , -35.

The -21 is not nearly as desirable from a performance standpoint.

There have also been different options available over the years like the 20 gallon header tank and new heater mod.

We have the 20 gallon header tank (which we field retrofitted maybe around 2015?) but not the new heater mod. It can get pretty cold up there in the cabin at FL270, but mostly a problem if you fly after sun down.

We picked a 1999 airframe to convert in 2007 due to the spar improvements and KFC225 autopilot which outperformed the S-tec autopilot on later models. That point is more mute now as the GFC600 is available which we installed in 2021 and it’s significantly better than any previous options.