Yeah, unfortunately ATC on the fly cannot give permission to violate the speed regulations. They themselves don’t always realize you’re somewhere that 200 kts applies, and not 250. Happens to me about once a month on downwind at KPTK. Detroit approach will ask me (or other pilots being vectored) to “maintain 250 kts”, or “maintain 200 kts or greater” while at 3,000 ft, below the DTW bravo shelf.

Clearly, it is not. That said, it is certainly possible to perform an "overhead" that IS illegal.

Depends on who the inspector is, is the most correct answer

Depends on who the inspector is, is the most correct answer

My sweet summer child


I had a ASI try to play games with me for far less, and he even had paperwork on his desk (if he had his work priorities in line) for exactly what I was doing.

[insert vader voice] I find your faith in government….disturbing

I could be wrong....but there was a group of Grumman guys who would fly formation and do the overhead breaks when landing....one of which was a former FAA director (AFS-800). So, I guess this was all legal.

My sweet summer child

I guess

“FAA Administrator Babbitt Arrested for DUI; Takes Leave of Absence”

https://www.flyingmag.com/news-faa-admi ... e-absence/

I’m sure it was 110% legal when he does it though, laws for thee and all that

I guess

“FAA Administrator Babbitt Arrested for DUI; Takes Leave of Absence”

https://www.flyingmag.com/news-faa-admi ... e-absence/

I’m sure it was 110% legal when he does it though, laws for thee and all that

I guess

“FAA Administrator Babbitt Arrested for DUI; Takes Leave of Absence”

https://www.flyingmag.com/news-faa-admi ... e-absence/

I’m sure it was 110% legal when he does it though, laws for thee and all that

let's do it this way:

How are you doing your overheads?

800', climbing left turn (45' AOB) to 1000' for the downwind CTL sounds good so far.

or-

800', level turn for the 800' downwind CTL.

others?

Descend from Initial to pattern altitude somewhere close to Vne. Level break at my intended pattern altitude. Usually requires no more than 45 deg AOB.

Usually a 3-5nm initial (if not already defined) at or above pattern altitude with good energy, if in a turbine aircraft descend to 1500AGL or whatever the turbine pattern altitude is. Level break to follow any downwind traffic. Usually ~60 deg of bank to keep a reasonably tight downwind (typically wing tip on the runway for most jets that I fly). Check below gear speed, gear/flaps down, 3 green prior to perching -usually perch slightly downwind of the numbers. Continuous base to final ~60 deg bank until level about 300' on final - land on the center to downwind half of the runway depending on the winds and number in formation, clear to the cold side after good brakes and mirror check. Generally have wingmen use 5" spacing for the break.

The Airplane Flying Handbook, while not "Regulatory" does list the OA in Chapter 7.

Not all airports have a single TPA. Some segregate HP and Turbine AC in a higher pattern. Prescott (KPRC) is one and lists their patterns in the AFD. https://aeronav.faa.gov/afd/30nov2023/s ... OV2023.pdf



Lots of traffic and sometimes the OA is recommended to reach the opposite side of the field for landing. I had this "oral" question on my ME rating and the DPE prompted me for it even though it wasn't regulatory.**

I'd bet there are a lot of airports with this configuration; see your AFD in your area for some.

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Some planes are slicker than others. the 310 is and if I'm west of our field I use the OA to enter the Downwind 18. Our field is at 6800, with a TPA of 7800. I use a TPA of 8300. This normally results in 500fpm descents and 30 AOB everywhere. Its a wider pattern for faster planes so dont be surprised by 1.5 - 2 mile offsets.

Usually, I'm 10.5kft and 15 miles out for the approach. I keep altitude hold, reduce throttles to 15" RPM to 2400 and mixtures to 8000' setting. If I were to just trim the nose down, I would soon be in the yellow arc and approach Vne, so Mike's comment isn't out of line. I use the OA to both reduce speed and altitude smoothly. There are other benefits like reducing CHTs slower and giving you a clear view of the windsock and pattern circle.

When I've slowed to 160 I can add the first notch of flaps and turn off altitude hold (~10miles out). This gives me a 500fpm descent. I'm still 160 at the Airport boundary.

Leveling off at 8300, I break midfield to 45 AOB. This results in pattern altitude and 140kts, my Vle abeam the numbers. I can either square up the pattern or continue the turn. Rolling out on final results in 100kts.

And just to set off all the internet experts, To an uncontrolled airport, I make calls at 5 mile intervals and overhead before the break. At my field, its; "Clark Traffic: Twin Cessna 3034L, xx mile west, Overhead Approach, midfield break, left downwind RW18...Clark". It just doesn't make sense to approach fast, unannounced into a quiet field. You never know whose there and not listening.

We have a new RNAV GPS 18 approach: https://aeronav.faa.gov/d-tpp/2312/10608R18.PDF So I expect more traffic from the west. This is a new approach so they are some special alternate minimums, and we hope to get these lowered soon.

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** I must say that my DPE was also the best CFI I have ever had. Tough, knowledgeable, fair and willing to speak plainly. He explained that attempting a Multi Instrument rating at my age fell into the Old-Bold-Pilot category. I consider myself a Poster Child for this and treat my flying accordingly.

Non military or ex military Warbird is there any consideration to VA speed in all these level 45-60 degree banks? Especially since it is typically end of flight and light on fuel. (below gross)

It's interesting to read what others do. I try to be as close to 1G and not rolling into or out of a turn when I put the gear down in any airplane. Especially in an airplane with mechanical electric gear. Lots of moving parts that are never checked for function with G on them.

Uncontrolled field your rolling belly up to cut into or across downwind traffic in 45-60 degree bank? If others are in the pattern say one on downwind the other on crosswind climbing after takeoff how do you time the break?

Does a normal average pilot know what you're talking about when announcing "initial for the overhead". Overhead approach for midfield break? Is that taught in any civilian school?