Lawson,
Welcome back to GA. I suspected you were military trained by your experience, and you confirmed it, and I am going to guess you are still flying with the USAF/USN/USMC, what ever the case You are experiencing exactly what I did when I returned to GA after flying fighters for 10 years with the USAF. Basically you get almost no credit for you training. There is next to NO understanding in the insurance business about the level of training you have undergone. They only seem to care about one thing, hours in type (retract and multi being the big ones). Just a sad fact. I know, I flew fighters for 26 years and basically the insurance industry could have cared less. They are, for the most part, completely ignorant of specific type training that is offered by owners groups like the American Bonanza Society or the Cessna Pilots Association. You mention these organizations to most underwriters and they seem to be puzzled, almost clueless. Sad fact is their businesses could save a lot of money if they bothered to do more careful actuary analysis of what type of training individuals they are insuring have.
Here are a few hints. If you are still in the military, you currently do very extensive annual training just to do your job, so take credit for it. I do an annual skull fracture with my major airline and you can bet I get credit for it from my insurance company, and the FAA.
Find a good broker, and do not contact the major underwriters directly. Have a frank conversation with said broker and let them shop insurance coverage for you. Its a twisted business and if you contact the major underwriters yourself, you kind of screw yourself.
High altitude endorsement is kind of a joke for a military guy. Most pilots have NEVER experienced altitude chamber training like you have, let alone do it every couple of years. which the military requires you to do. Probably why we still have fools failing to put on the O2 masks and dying due to hypoxia. I know many airline pilots who have never been to the altitude chamber and it kind of baffles my mind.
Bottom line, its a different world, but since they are writing the insurance documents, you kind of have to play by their rules. That being said, you should fight for credit for the training you have had.
Find a good broker who UNDERSTANDS military training, then find a good type specific instructor in the aircraft you are interested in. For you, consider joining the Cessna Pilot's Association as a mandatory move. They have very specific training for the C/P210 and these owner organizations are absolutely invaluable to the owner/operator. They pay back many times the cost of subscription in owner benefits.


Chris C

Fwiw, the big boys self insure, aka go naked. It's better financially for you. If you run the same math the insurance companies do you can prove it.

[quote="Lawson Cass" I’m good BTW; chamber and ROBD current and don’t need YouTube as my refresher.

Again, if the performance is nothing special... why the type rating style training.[/quote]


Lawson, I would offer for your thought process that the "performance is nothing special" is one of the big reasons that the insurance companies may require it.

I've done a fair amount of transition training for "jet guys" moving into older piston airplanes. (in fairness, *not* P210s). One of the key things that requires a "mindset shift" is the *lack* of performance. Sometimes the adaptation takes a bit of time.

Example: engine out procedures in a multi-engine jet...vs. engine out procedures in a piston twin. You don't just pitch up and go....you lower the nose, go through the drill, and aim for the lowest/softest thing you can see.


(yes, I'm aware a P210 is a single).


More than one highly qualified military (jet) guy has come to grief in a piston plane. I would suggest re-reading Doug R.'s post.

Good luck with the transition.

If I could give this post a 1000 "likes" I would.

(I've been out on fire contract for 4 months. That translates to "no IFR". I have already scheduled my IFR/recurrent for the Baron I fly....for "on the way home". Because of exactly what Doug says).

Hi Lawson,

I don't think you're going to have a good GA experience owning a P210. The engine installation is pretty marginal. It's going to run hot and it doesn't climb very well. The marginal engine installation is going to result in a lot of maintenance headaches. It's not that fast and isn't that fun to fly. If it doesn't have air conditioning, I cannot possibly stress enough how miserable it will be to fly. The pressurization differential is not so great either so you're going to be using oxygen a lot. Regular 210 is a pretty good airplane BTW!

I really wish I could talk you out of this as your first GA airplane. I feel there are much better airplanes out there that you'd enjoy owning.

An older Malibu or a Lancair IV-P would be a much better choice if you're looking for a pressurized single. Unfortunately, the price point of the P210 makes it seem pretty appealing but that's a trap I don't recommend falling for.

Mike

I would agree. Lancair currently has a very sweet IV-P for sale I have seen up close. It is a beautiful bird. From what I understand, insurance is not a problem.

https://lancair.com/for-sale/1997-lancair-ivp-n2zm/

I sold my Lancair IV to a F35/F15 pilot. He loves it and with your military training, you are the perfect guy to own one.

Doug, could you expand a bit on this please?

I have a minuscule amount of P time, but a lot of T210 time and always felt it was a very straightforward airplane. I don't understand what you mean about it being 'challenging to fly well'.

Robert

Well, some of this is true. Some is old wives tales. I could be wrong but I don't think Mike has ever owned a P210, so please chime in if I'm wrong.

It is a miserable climber due to CHT's with the standard 520. No, you will never be using supplemental oxygen. It is very nice flying between 15k-20k with almost no other traffic at that altitude. You will face the standard crappy cylinder quality that is out there. It flies like a SUV which makes it the stable instrument platform I appreciate. It is VERY easy to fly and land...well. It isn't very fast at TAS of 170-175kts. The one door takes some getting used to. I do think A/C is required.

Now I've never owned an older Malibu so what I'll say next is based on what my shop has said - there is no maintenance cost difference between a Bu and a P210. I dunno. Take it with whatever grains of salt you want.

It is not a perfect airplane. There are warts and compromises. And importantly, it is a Cessna on a Beech Forum so the amount of love it will get here is marginal, to no surprise.

Doug, could you expand a bit on this please?

I have a minuscule amount of P time, but a lot of T210 time and always felt it was a very straightforward airplane. I don't understand what you mean about it being 'challenging to fly well'.

Robert

Need one with the Viatoe conversion. Makes it what it should have been in the first place.

https://www.avweb.com/ownership/turbono ... t-quieter/

http://www.vitatoeaviation.com

That is correct.

Flight Safety used to have a 210 sim program. I think they sold it to another company and then it disappeared. It was a great program.

The only P210's I would consider would be the Vitattoe and the Silver Eagle Turbine. The Turbine seems way over priced compared to a Meridian with a better cabin, better performance, and a factory installed PT-6. The Vitattoe IO-550 TN seems like it solves many of the deficiencies of the original design except for the 10 pounds of #$%$ shoved in a 5 pound bag issue. Of course the Vitattoe prices are pretty close to Malibu prices.

I have a buddy with a N/A 210N equipped with a IO-550. It is an outstanding airplane with none of the hassles/expenses of turbocharging. He can easily get it to the mid-teens when necessary. It carries over 1,000 lbs with full fuel (about 6 hours of gas). My guess is that he will outrun any stock P210 on a 400 nm leg.

I’ll question that as I’ve flown the 550 210 (great airplane by the way). The NA starts to wheeze above 8k. Years ago we raced that IO550 against a stock T-210 the 550 easily beat the T to 8000 and speed then the T ran away. A turbo is a great thing to have when you need max power for a piggy airframe. P owners are my friends and I’ll never run down their choices but I prefer my climb performance and two doors. I tend to fly below oxygen mandated altitudes (where those RV guys hang out) anyway. I’d stick the tubes in my nose if my tail was sticking in the gulfstream in the low 20s if I could keep my CHTs under control. I’ll admit that I’ve not spent any time in the flight levels turning a prop.