14 Nov 2025, 12:57 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Phenom 300  Posted: 26 Sep 2018, 10:33 |
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Joined: 01/29/08
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Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
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Username Protected wrote: I fully expect the smartass "Okay so possibly 2 P180's are flying now" response from you in keeping with your character, however, the fact remains it isn't that simple You still didn't say what % of rich people block their tail number vs. poor people. You wrote a lot but didn't post any "facts". I understand that data is not 100% accurate but it's not 100% inaccurate either. It paints a great picture of what airplanes are popular and what airplanes are not.
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Post subject: Re: Phenom 300 Posted: 26 Sep 2018, 10:43 |
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Joined: 05/29/09
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Username Protected wrote: what airplanes are popular and what airplanes are not. Its amazing how often this turns out to be a consideration.
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Post subject: Re: Phenom 300 Posted: 26 Sep 2018, 10:45 |
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Username Protected wrote: what airplanes are popular and what airplanes are not. Its amazing how often this turns out to be a consideration.
It's my number 1 consideration when airplane shopping. Why shouldn't it be? Do you want to own an airplane nobody can work on?
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Post subject: Re: Phenom 300 Posted: 26 Sep 2018, 10:57 |
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Joined: 05/29/09
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Company: Craft Air Services, LLC
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Username Protected wrote:
Its amazing how often this turns out to be a consideration.
It's my number 1 consideration when airplane shopping. Why shouldn't it be? Do you want to own an airplane nobody can work on?
Just because an aircraft is not the most popular in the sky doesn't mean that it is unsupportable. If that were the case, we would all be limited to Cessna 172s.
My #1 criteria is how well an aircraft fulfills the requirements of the mission. Supportability is certainly a consideration, but it isn't the prime factor by a long shot.
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Post subject: Re: Phenom 300 Posted: 26 Sep 2018, 11:03 |
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Joined: 01/29/08
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Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
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Username Protected wrote: Supportability is certainly a consideration, but it isn't the prime factor by a long shot. If your airplane isn't flying then it isn't fulfilling it's mission. PC12's, E55P, KA's, CJ's are all just as popular as 172's. Flying right now: 63 PC12 Pilatus PC-12 43 BE20 Beechcraft Super King Air 200 38 SR22 Cirrus SR-22 34 C172 Cessna Skyhawk
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Post subject: Re: Phenom 300 Posted: 26 Sep 2018, 11:04 |
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Username Protected wrote: Supportability is certainly a consideration, but it isn't the prime factor by a long shot. If your airplane isn't flying then it isn't fulfilling it's mission. PC12's, E55P, KA's, CJ's are all just as popular as 172's.
Maybe on Flightaware, but in the grand scheme of things, the number counts aren't even close.
Also, only a fraction of aircraft flying are on flight aware. Many are blocked, and a significant amount, if not the majority, of flying is done without any contact with ATC.
44,000 172 have been produced and they are still being made. How many PC12s are there, 1500 maybe?
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Last edited on 26 Sep 2018, 11:13, edited 1 time in total.
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Post subject: Re: Phenom 300 Posted: 26 Sep 2018, 11:08 |
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Username Protected wrote:
Maybe on Flightaware, but in the grand scheme of things, the number counts aren't even close.
PC12's, CJ's and KA's aren't popular? That's what I see on ramps everywhere. FA backs up what I see. I can't decipher the point you're trying to make. Are you saying that because there are more 172's than CJ's a CJ's have no service/support network?
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Post subject: Re: Phenom 300 Posted: 26 Sep 2018, 11:24 |
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Username Protected wrote: You still didn't say what % of rich people block their tail number vs. poor people.
You wrote a lot but didn't post any "facts". I understand that data is not 100% accurate but it's not 100% inaccurate either. It paints a great picture of what airplanes are popular and what airplanes are not. I'm not going to sit here and compile a list of facts for you to comb through, I'm sharing an insight that doesn't support your position, so you oppose it blindly. This isn't rich people versus poor people, quit trying to distract the conversation. I said the more expensive the aircraft, the more likely it is blocked. You say 43 king air's are flying right now, I say 150 are flying. You say 34 172's are flying right now, I say 300 are flying right now You fail to realize that nearly 100% of CJ's, that are not blocked, are on flightaware right now because they are headed to or from Class A airspace where IFR is required, thus the appearance on flightaware You then compare this to C172's and undermine any evidence of critical thinking on your end Out of the 48 contiguous states, you believe there are only 34 C172's in the air right now? There are more than 34 C172's in the air right now in Florida and California alone. Your numbers are flawed, your point is not flawed though, something to be said for having an airplane that can be worked on- stick to that argument
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Post subject: Re: Phenom 300 Posted: 26 Sep 2018, 11:36 |
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Joined: 05/29/09
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Username Protected wrote:
Maybe on Flightaware, but in the grand scheme of things, the number counts aren't even close.
PC12's, CJ's and KA's aren't popular? That's what I see on ramps everywhere. FA backs up what I see. I can't decipher the point you're trying to make. Are you saying that because there are more 172's than CJ's a CJ's have no service/support network?
No sir, you are the one that said that aircraft supportability was the #1 criteria and that only the most popular aircraft are supportable. Using that logic, only the 172 is supportable since its production numbers absolutely dwarf every other aircraft out there. The PC-12 doesn't even make the top 100 in terms of aircraft deliveries. Yes, I know that it is a well supported airframe. I'm simply trying to make the point that popularity doesn't equal supportability.
As far as popularity, I think you are quite myopic in your observations. Flight aware only shows aircraft being handled by ATC. Thousands of aircraft are in the air right now and they aren't talking to anyone and aren't being tracked. I don't doubt that PC12s and CJs are plentiful on GA ramps at class B and C airports, but their numbers pale in comparison to the 172s and PA-28s scattered throughout the countryside. It is kind of like a Manhattanite saying that nobody uses private cars anymore. Well, maybe in their world that is true, but for the other 99.9% of us, that statement is poppycock.
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Post subject: Re: Phenom 300 Posted: 26 Sep 2018, 11:58 |
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Joined: 12/06/11
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Username Protected wrote: Supportability is certainly a consideration, but it isn't the prime factor by a long shot. If your airplane isn't flying then it isn't fulfilling it's mission. PC12's, E55P, KA's, CJ's are all just as popular as 172's. Flying right now: 63 PC12 Pilatus PC-12 43 BE20 Beechcraft Super King Air 200 38 SR22 Cirrus SR-22 34 C172 Cessna Skyhawk
Just another set of data points using info from ADSBExchange looking at planes flying in the last few minutes. This is limited to just the continental US airspace vs worldwide with FlightAware:
37 PC12
44 BE20
18 SR22
165 C172
There are a heck of a lot more 172's in the air when looking at ADSB.
I also compared several other types between the two platforms and there are some significant spreads in what they show for some models between. For example, there are 4 GLF5's on FlightAware but ADSB shows over 20 at the same time (i.e. blocked tail numbers).
Not trying to argue any particular point, just trying to shine some light on sources of data with systematic limitations.
 
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Post subject: Re: Phenom 300 Posted: 26 Sep 2018, 12:31 |
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Joined: 01/29/08
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Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
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Username Protected wrote:
I'm not going to sit here and compile a list of facts for you to comb through, I'm sharing an insight that doesn't support your position, so you oppose it blindly. This isn't rich people versus poor people, quit trying to distract the conversation. I said the more expensive the aircraft, the more likely it is blocked. You say 43 king air's are flying right now, I say 150 are flying. You say 34 172's are flying right now, I say 300 are flying right now
You fail to realize that nearly 100% of CJ's, that are not blocked, are on flightaware right now because they are headed to or from Class A airspace where IFR is required, thus the appearance on flightaware
You then compare this to C172's and undermine any evidence of critical thinking on your end
Out of the 48 contiguous states, you believe there are only 34 C172's in the air right now? There are more than 34 C172's in the air right now in Florida and California alone.
Your numbers are flawed, your point is not flawed though, something to be said for having an airplane that can be worked on- stick to that argument
That's a whole lot of words to say absolutely nothing. Are you really saying that FA numbers have no reflection on what is actually flying? My tail number isn't blocked. Lot's of PC12 tail numbers aren't blocked. Lots of E55P tail numbers aren't blocked. Do those planes not qualify as "expensive"?
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Post subject: Re: Phenom 300 Posted: 26 Sep 2018, 12:35 |
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Joined: 01/29/08
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Username Protected wrote: As far as popularity, I think you are quite myopic in your observations. Flight aware only shows aircraft being handled by ATC. Thousands of aircraft are in the air right now and they aren't talking to anyone and aren't being tracked. I don't doubt that PC12s and CJs are plentiful on GA ramps at class B and C airports, but their numbers pale in comparison to the 172s and PA-28s scattered throughout the countryside. It is kind of like a Manhattanite saying that nobody uses private cars anymore. Well, maybe in their world that is true, but for the other 99.9% of us, that statement is poppycock. So because there are more 172's than other GA planes only 172's have a good support network? It's like you forgot what the debate was about.... the P180 and it's lack of support. The P180 has no support network, I never see them on ramps and there are none flying on FA. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck... it's a duck. But you think I'm being myopic? Explain.
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Post subject: Re: Phenom 300 Posted: 26 Sep 2018, 12:35 |
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Joined: 01/29/08
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Username Protected wrote: Just another set of data points using info from ADSBExchange looking at planes flying in the last few minutes. This is limited to just the continental US airspace vs worldwide with FlightAware: 37 PC12 44 BE20 18 SR22 165 C172 There are a heck of a lot more 172's in the air when looking at ADSB. I also compared several other types between the two platforms and there are some significant spreads in what they show for some models between. For example, there are 4 GLF5's on FlightAware but ADSB shows over 20 at the same time (i.e. blocked tail numbers). Not trying to argue any particular point, just trying to shine some light on sources of data with systematic limitations. You left P180 off your list.... why?
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Post subject: Re: Phenom 300 Posted: 26 Sep 2018, 12:39 |
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Joined: 01/29/08
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Username Protected wrote: Your numbers are flawed, your point is not flawed though, something to be said for having an airplane that can be worked on- stick to that argument My numbers are flawed? There are no P180's flying on FA and there's no support network. That's the only point I ever tried to make but now you're agreeing with my point. This isn't rocket science. You're doing mental gymnastics when none are required.
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Post subject: Re: Phenom 300 Posted: 26 Sep 2018, 12:49 |
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Username Protected wrote: Your numbers are flawed, your point is not flawed though, something to be said for having an airplane that can be worked on- stick to that argument My numbers are flawed? There are no P180's flying on FA and there's no support network. That's the only point I ever tried to make but now you're agreeing with my point. This isn't rocket science. You're doing mental gymnastics when none are required.
Actually it's not, I said this is a behavior you constantly exhibit on here, you trust the FA numbers to be a good representation of the sky, and they're not, this is probably the 10th time I've seen you reference them in an argument
it's not even a proportional sample, and yes, I attempted to explain the data sources and potential flaws and apparently you glaze over that as "mental gymnastics"
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