I understand.

How fast you going on 600PPH down low?

Yeah that's plenty for an arrival.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N101 ... /KSRQ/KMDW

I did just short of 1000 miles in the Bravo SRQ to MDW on Monday. They started us down nearly 1 hour before we landed. Took off full fuel 4860lbs and landed with 1800. Full fuel in the Bravo leaves you 1000lbs for people and bags. FL400 burns about 920lbs /hr at 370 TAS.

The turboprops lack the ability to get into the high 30s and low 40s where the headwinds typically die down. The peak winds, especially in the winter when it matters most, are often in the mid 20s.

There are days where I would be bucking a 150 knot headwind at FL280 and the jet at FL400 is facing only 50 knots.

The jet has the further advantage that it flies faster, so headwind is a lesser percentage effect. A 100 knot headwind for a PC12 going 270 KTAS is 170 knots GS. A 100 knot headwind for a 400 KTAS jet is 300 knots GS. The faster speed makes the headwind matter less.


This isn't a function of TP versus jet, this is a function of fuel tank size for that particular example.

An older KA90 is going to be just as limited as the VLJs, for example.

A PC12 and CJ3 are going to have comparable range, for another.

Mike C.

As long as we are talking single pilot jets... why not throw in the Premier?

It too suffers from short legs... but it is fast... and has a huge cabin!

As far as ramp presence it is head and shoulders above anything mentioned here. Even has an airstair.

The market has firmed up considerably but you can still snag a Premier I in the $1.3M range and if you spend Mustang money you're into Premier IA territory. Phenom money will buy you just about any Premier IA...

The Premier is 85 knots faster than the Mustang, 60 faster than the Phenom 100 and 150 kts faster than the King Air 200!

It's a rare day you have a 150kt headwind component on an entire flight, particularly with a 50kt component at higher altitudes.

We are also talking about most VLJs. Not 400+kits jets and I referenced particular TPs in my post.

I Certainly did not mean to include all TP.

So all we need to do is put a bigger fuel tank in the VLJs and problem solved? Maybe?

The Premier isn't a VLJ, and it's a completely different animal. It has a GTOW of 12,500 lbs., and it's a slippery runway hog. The transition to a Premier is a much bigger step.

The Premier isn't a VLJ, and it's a completely different animal. It has a GTOW of 12,500 lbs., and it's a slippery runway hog. The transition to a Premier is a much bigger step.

How do the CJ2 and CJ2+ compare to the other options, prices on these are seeming interesting and they technically have six seats in the back, even if the back two are a bit tight?
Hard to see wanting a Mustang over a CJ2, unless I'm missing something?

A CJ2+ of comparable age and hours, is going to cost double of a Mustang. In my opinion, the 2+ is the next logical step up from the Mustang. Its range is 1500+, cruises 400+ KTAS, and hauls more. Naturally, its DOC is going to be higher as well. I don't think you'll find many buyers pondering between the two. Where one fits, the other doesn't. Perhaps Allen Wolpert will chime in. He flies a 2+.

Clint, point taken on the CJ2+.
I was mostly looking at CJ2s, I thought the only diff between 2 and 2+ was avionics, but I may be mistaken. I sat right seat with a charter operator several years ago (after he kicked the SIC to the passenger cabin, so I could join him) who argued the CJ2 was better and more reliable than the 2+. (They operated several CJs and CJ2s). Looks like a CJ2 is less than 1.5x a 510 (obviously apples to apples is messy), so a not inconsequential uptick in price but there do seem to be plenty for sale, probably helping push down the Mustang price...

Pretty soon all these "legacy" jets will be free to anyone willing to sign up for the upkeep costs.
Learjet 31A for me, when that happens.
Edit: said by a guy who has yet to pilot any jet... I'm sure the mustang is awesome compared to my little TP. Although I recently loaded up the whole family (me, wife, 3 kids) the nanny and a copilot and traveled a long way at 265kts...

Patrick,

Granted, a Mustang doesn't fit everyone, but it fits my mission profile like a glove. I rarely have more than 1-2 others onboard. My typical fuel load is 2,000 lbs., which gives me 1,350# available payload, and that's more than I need. If I flew 2,000nm frequently, it would feel like more of a stretch. But, I don't. Thus, I'm a happy camper.

The CJ2+ is a modernized CJ2. It has FADEC, PL21, Jeppview, etc. Many things that simplify SP ops. Still, a totally different airplane than a Mustang.

Here is a real world flight, maiden voyage from Vero. Plane had typical westbound headwind. The dealer landed with 1.5 hours of fuel. TAS was 260. Anyway this was an easy flight for the M600 westbound. Piper is an interesting company. They are very conservative with their performance tables. I guess they are secure in being the slowest, but there is no overestimating in the book. My M500 will beat the speed and range spec in the POH. Unlike some airframers that let the marketing guys/gals write the performance specs, I think they use the actual test data.



Here is from their website, NBAA by speed. Again, I would make a case that while NBAA range allows for Apples to Apples comparison, in the real world, you rarely need NBAA reserves in a TP. You can land pretty much anywhere. Although on my SLC to Idaho Falls flight today, my legal alternate was Denver CO. Not usual to have such widespread LIFR as we do with Winter storm Kori. So with a conservative 1 hour reserve, going to get about 1440 nm at a normal cruise of 260 KTAS. The M600 holds almost as much fuel as the TBM, but burns way less fuel.

My wife and I are low time pilots. Right around 1000 hours a piece. Probably 400 of those have been in the TBM. We each have lower hours because we usually fly together and spit the legs. With that said I assume getting insurance on any of the legacy jets will be prohibitive. Seems getting insurance on the TBM or the phenom is quite doable with our turbine time. My wife is going on a demo flight in the phenom next week.

Hummm. Wonder how many folks operate that at 184 knots (long range cruise)