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 Post subject: Re: RV Talk
PostPosted: 23 Jun 2016, 22:44 
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Location: Stratton ,CO
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Fritz,
I'm not sure I remember 100% but I'm pretty sure I had to cut a new hole in the back of the tank for the sending unit, the wire for the float will have to be shortened and bent vs the other (normal install) side where it is mounted in the side of the tank. I remember having troubles getting one of the plates (that the sending unit mounts to)to seal up, on the third try I threw the cork gasket that Vans supplied away and used pro seal which is still holding today. The prior two try's on the plate was pro seal and cork gasket. YMMV


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 Post subject: Re: RV Talk
PostPosted: 23 Jun 2016, 23:22 
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Aircraft: C-120 RV8
A few tips on the Proseal.

1) Scuff the metal really good.
2) Clean it and clean it again. As far as I'm concerned this is the worst part of working with the Proseal. Too many chemicals. I felt like I was bathing in the stuff. Probably not good.
3) You'll want a scale for measuring.
4) I mixed on a white ceramic tile using a stiff putty knife. Draw the Proseal across the tile. Scrape and put back in a pile. Rinse and repeat until well mixed. The nice part of this technique is that you can see the streaks of black hardner when you draw it across the tile. Using this technique I was always confident that each batch was fully mixed.
5) I dispensed with a Semco gun but some folks use syringes from the farm store.
6) I did one rib at a time and taped down each side of the rib so I could pull excess material onto the tape.
7) Oh.....and lots of popsicle sticks (or a sealant spoon) and lots of towels cut into about 3" or 4" squares. One little wipe and you throw it away. It's all about controlling the mess.


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 Post subject: Re: RV Talk
PostPosted: 24 Jun 2016, 14:58 
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Joined: 12/12/07
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Company: Stonehouse Supply,Inc.
Location: Wellington-Palm Beach, Florida
Aircraft: Van's RV-14A
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Technically not an rv but close. The Harmon rocket II is based off of an rv 4. This was a super quick build(purchased already built) but I plan to make several updates to it when I find the time.


(dang, it didn't import the upside down picture)

So, it is obviously set up for inverted flight! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: RV Talk
PostPosted: 24 Jun 2016, 15:04 
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Joined: 05/11/10
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Location: Indiana
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Nice & clean, Robert!
:bow: :thumbup: :clap:


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 Post subject: Re: RV Talk
PostPosted: 24 Jun 2016, 15:06 
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Joined: 03/31/09
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Location: Perry, GA KPXE
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That is The Perfect combination of aircraft. Go fast by yourself, go comfortably with passengers.
An oooo-weeee. A Harmon Rocket with a kick a paint job. Joe, you are my hero!
And it doesn't hurt your wife is as smoking hot as your RV.



Yes it is a great combo! I have really enjoyed flying it. It's an easy plane to fly. I added an AOA to it and it is amazing how slow it can get on final. I frequently use a half or less of our 3000 ft grass strip.

Don't give my wife a big head now. I don't want her to realize I outkicked my coverage!


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 Post subject: Re: RV Talk
PostPosted: 25 Jun 2016, 15:13 
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Location: Indiana
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Getting down to business here, a couple of quick questions:

1) It seems to me that cork gaskets will have a finite and short life before they start leaking. Has that been a problem? Is there an reason why I can't substitute silicone of the same dimensions?

2) Photos below. Can I trim the T-715 attach angle to keep it from interfering with the rib? Maybe trim the hole in the rib a little? Or do I have to start over on a new rib and T-708 Access Plate?

Attachment:
2016-06-24 21.03.08.jpg


Attachment:
2016-06-24 21.02.26.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: RV Talk
PostPosted: 25 Jun 2016, 20:51 
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Username Protected wrote:
Getting down to business here, a couple of quick questions:

1) It seems to me that cork gaskets will have a finite and short life before they start leaking. Has that been a problem? Is there an reason why I can't substitute silicone of the same dimensions?

2) Photos below. Can I trim the T-715 attach angle to keep it from interfering with the rib? Maybe trim the hole in the rib a little? Or do I have to start over on a new rib and T-708 Access Plate?

Attachment:
2016-06-24 21.03.08.jpg


Attachment:
2016-06-24 21.02.26.jpg


Ditch the cork gasket. Too many folks have had leaks with that gasket. When the time comes, attach the cover plate with Proseal. Absolutely do not use silicon or teflon tape in your fuel system. Even though you said silicon I'm thinking you may have meant Proseal.

I think you could trim the hole in the rib for clearance. I wouldn't trim the bracket or you will loose the edge distance on that hole. Trimming the hole in the rib shouldn't be a problem as long as you have enough overlap between the cover plate and rib to get a good seal.

Edit: I realize now you meant a silicon gasket. My mistake. I still wouldn't do it. Proseal it on.

Here are pics of my cover plate. I don't seem to have a pic of the anti rotation bracket.

Robert


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 Post subject: Re: RV Talk
PostPosted: 25 Jun 2016, 21:14 
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Does the RV kit come with dos and donts for builders? Some things are common knowledge for us gearheads but not so much for first timers. I remember a recent crash where a homebuilder used the wrong sealant in the fuel system.

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 Post subject: Re: RV Talk
PostPosted: 25 Jun 2016, 21:27 
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Robert, that's exactly the view I was hoping for. Thanks.

Yes, I meant silicone gaskets from GeeBee.

So, you're talking about skipping the gasket entirely and just putting Pro Seal between the plate and the rib? A guy on VAF recommended something from Permatex for that, claiming it makes removal and replacement easy. But, as alluded to by Jesse J just now, using something different from what Van's calls out is fraught with peril, especially in the fuel system.

It's been a long, head-scratching day but I think I'm getting somewhere.


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 Post subject: Re: RV Talk
PostPosted: 25 Jun 2016, 21:39 
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Username Protected wrote:
Does the RV kit come with dos and donts for builders? Some things are common knowledge for us gearheads but not so much for first timers. I remember a recent crash where a homebuilder used the wrong sealant in the fuel system.

The builders' manual has several chapters on general aluminum working. It's also worth going to a SportAir workshop if you're new to aluminum. There are the Bengelis books, VAF, and hopefully local builders.

The fuel thing you're referring to is the $35million lawsuit against Van's. The builder used big globs of RTV in the fuel system, which is evidently a really bad idea. The manual apparently describes use of something else (I'm not there yet). It's because of cases like this, where I just don't know what I don't know, that I'm following the plans and manual slavishly. If they don't make sense, I stop working and ask questions until they do. Every, single deviation has unintended consequences. Once in a great while, the plans are wrong, such as on the horizontal stabilizer, where the drawing transposes a nut and a washer. That's a different story.


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 Post subject: Re: RV Talk
PostPosted: 25 Jun 2016, 21:57 
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Username Protected wrote:
Does the RV kit come with dos and donts for builders? Some things are common knowledge for us gearheads but not so much for first timers. I remember a recent crash where a homebuilder used the wrong sealant in the fuel system.


Not in the sense you are referring to. The rules say this, "the major portion of which has been fabricated and assembled by person(s) who undertook the construction project solely for their own education or recreation."

This all falls into the "education" portion of the rule. While the rules allow a great deal of lattitude in these matters, I won't use any materials or techniques in my build that wouldn't be acceptable on a Bonanza. In my own lingo, I call this working to an "aircraft standard". Now when I work on my truck or pole barn, all bets are off :D

Robert


Last edited on 25 Jun 2016, 22:04, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: RV Talk
PostPosted: 25 Jun 2016, 22:02 
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Username Protected wrote:
Robert, that's exactly the view I was hoping for. Thanks.

Yes, I meant silicone gaskets from GeeBee.

So, you're talking about skipping the gasket entirely and just putting Pro Seal between the plate and the rib? A guy on VAF recommended something from Permatex for that, claiming it makes removal and replacement easy. But, as alluded to by Jesse J just now, using something different from what Van's calls out is fraught with peril, especially in the fuel system.

It's been a long, head-scratching day but I think I'm getting somewhere.


Nothing is better than Proseal. After all.......that's what we built the entire tank with :) .

I wouldn't use any Permatex products. Unless I (or someone close to me) have personal experience with something like this I'm not a player. Too big of a chance for problems. There are some things on the plane that need to be 110%, and the fuel system is one of them. I say no deviations from known common practices and products.

Robert


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 Post subject: Re: RV Talk
PostPosted: 26 Jun 2016, 11:14 
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Joined: 11/09/09
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Location: KHII & KREI
Aircraft: RV6A, C182M
Username Protected wrote:
2) Photos below. Can I trim the T-715 attach angle to keep it from interfering with the rib? Maybe trim the hole in the rib a little? Or do I have to start over on a new rib and T-708 Access Plate?

Attachment:
2016-06-24 21.03.08.jpg


Attachment:
2016-06-24 21.02.26.jpg


I'd be careful trimming the dimple on the rib as that provides structural stiffness to the rib. If it were me I'd trim the anti-rotation bracket and put another rivet hole in it not so close to the edge. My 6 doesn't even have that anti-rotational bracket and when the SB came out about that it was clear to me that some builder didn't tighten the bulkhead fitting before attaching the fuel line B nut and rotated the pickup. I know several guys that did the anti-rotation bracket SB and had issues with the tanks leaking around the access hole when they were done. Mine has enough fuel tank sealer piled on the bulkhead fitting that it would never rotate anyway especially using the correct wrenching procedure. ;)

Dave


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 Post subject: Re: RV Talk
PostPosted: 26 Jun 2016, 14:17 
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TaDaaaaa!

I'd like to thank all the little people who made this hole possible, including and especially Robert, Dremel, some Chinese company that made my die grinder, and 3M for Scotchbrite, with a small raspberry to Van's for making this unclear.

Attachment:
2016-06-26 14.09.46.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: RV Talk
PostPosted: 26 Jun 2016, 20:29 
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Joined: 01/06/11
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Location: Missouri
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Username Protected wrote:
TaDaaaaa!

I'd like to thank all the little people who made this hole possible, including and especially Robert, Dremel, some Chinese company that made my die grinder, and 3M for Scotchbrite, with a small raspberry to Van's for making this unclear.

Attachment:
2016-06-26 14.09.46.jpg


It's a masterpiece :D .

This stuff is the fun part of the build. It's just one problem after another that needs solving. I have had more fun sorting out all the problems and acquiring all the parts than I have had actually doing the work.

I anxiously await your posts while working with Proseal. It is without a doubt the stickiest, gooiest stuff mankind has ever put in a tin can! God speed :D

Robert


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