BeechTalk - BT - Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Diesel

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 May 2016, 11:11

Username Protected wrote:

Another area of skepticism for me on this project is the price/parts list: http://www.raptor-aircraft.com/ordering.html

This list includes 62 parts. Obviously many of them are assemblies or collections of parts, but it still seems radically simple relative to any other high performance aircraft.

What are they missing?

The pricing for individual parts/assemblies they do list seems reasonable to me. Whether there is $46k of markup in those parts that they can shave off is questionable.

It is obviously the deal of a the century. They are giving away labor and substantially discounting all parts. The best part is they are not making a profit. This looks too good to be true... :eek:

Remember, limit two per person. DON'T GET GREEDY.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 May 2016, 11:17

Username Protected wrote:

I have a new business plan...sell dollar bills for $0.95. I can grow this business rapidly. I believe. How do I make money? Cost control.

I would like to place an initial order for 10,000.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 May 2016, 11:22

There's room both in my mission and my hangar for this airplane. It'll fit between the Terrafugia and the supersonic BD-10!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 May 2016, 11:23

Quote:

A high speed cruise using about 230hp will get you about 190 kias or 285 ktas burning about 11gph

230 HP on 11 GPH is 0.32 lbs/hp/hr.

Moves it out of the impossible category into the difficult but possible category.

190 KCAS yielding 285 KTAS is an altitude of 26,200 ft.

They will not get 285 KTAS on 230 HP.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 May 2016, 11:23

I have driven several European diesels near wide open on the autobahns for extended periods. 2-3 hrs. The did not seem unhappy. Most of these were turbo diesels.
At 120mph plus, I get more worried about the tires than the engine.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 May 2016, 11:24

While I think the "investor's" specs are pure fantasy, the notion of a much wider and pressurized cabin is very appealing.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 May 2016, 11:33

Username Protected wrote:

But the optimist is hoping that they get close.

The gap between the numbers and reality indicates a company who is so far off that there is no realistic hope they ever produce anything. Just another in a long string of cabin mockups that will be trucked to Oshkosh never to be heard from again.

This is a day dream with a web site.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 May 2016, 11:44

Username Protected wrote:

But the optimist is hoping that they get close.

The gap between the numbers and reality indicates a company who is so far off that there is no realistic hope they ever produce anything. Just another in a long string of cabin mockups that will be trucked to Oshkosh never to be heard from again.

This is a day dream with a web site.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 May 2016, 11:45

Username Protected wrote:

But the optimist is hoping that they get close.

The gap between the numbers and reality indicates a company who is so far off that there is no realistic hope they ever produce anything. Just another in a long string of cabin mockups that will be trucked to Oshkosh never to be heard from again.

This is a day dream with a web site.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 May 2016, 11:53

It looks to me like the Raptor designer is smoking crack.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 May 2016, 11:56

No they are just planning on making the aircraft out of Unobtainium. That will make it exceed the design specs.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 May 2016, 12:03

Username Protected wrote:

Are you saying that, with this supposed 15% drag reduction that the Audi engine cannot propel the aircraft at these speeds?

15% less drag, if achieved, means I am using 85% power at the same speed. Now if I use the extra power and speed up, I only go 5% faster because speed goes up as the cube root of power.

Quote:

Or are you saying that he's misinterpreting the data and that he is not achieving the claimed reduction in drag?

Very likely as well. Lots of drag comes from things he is not accounting for, like antennas, air intakes, air exhaust, stability/certification requirements, etc.

Ain't nobody going 300 knots in a 300 HP 5 place pressurize airplane.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 May 2016, 12:19

Lots of laws around raising money from unsophisticated investors but these guys are far enough out there that maybe, just like the laws of physics, they have chosen to ignore them - SEC doesn't tend to get involved until investors squawk and the companies are usually gone at that point. I'd bet on this or a family money.

Marketing and exuberance go a long way towards raising money, but in the end, if they don't have something to fall back they will hit the wall - hard.

I'm with Don, this will put a bad mark on aviation. Eclipse did the same thing and they had good leadership (I knew Vern), a great team and excellent funding. They missed the mark but not by nearly as much as this one is going to miss.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 May 2016, 12:32

Username Protected wrote:

Lots of laws around raising money from unsophisticated investors but these guys are far enough out there that maybe, just like the laws of physics, they have chosen to ignore them - SEC doesn't tend to get involved until investors squawk and the companies are usually gone at that point. I'd bet on this or a family money.

I don't see where they are asking for investment money.

I see where they are asking for refundable deposits and that falls under the CFTC. They are having that money deposited in escrow.com. They don't touch the money or get any use of it.

Very different situation then the way Eclipse handled customer deposits.

To me it looks like a local EAA chapter experimental project in watching the build.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 May 2016, 12:33

I can't wait for this plane to hit the market. It'll probably be ready inside of a year. No wonder the SF50 project is taking so long and behind schedule. With the Raptor soon to be available, who would buy an SF50? Jet speed, jet altitude (kind of), Honda Civic economy and Boeing range for $100k!!!