16 Nov 2025, 17:49 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: That PC12 is biiiiiiiig.  Posted: 06 Jan 2015, 18:21 |
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Joined: 08/25/13
Posts: 615
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Username Protected wrote:
Never flown a Pilatus, do you flare?
It's just a big Bonanza.
So yes, just like KA, you need a bit of flare/level off? It's coming nose down and then dips as you pull the power?
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Post subject: Re: That PC12 is biiiiiiiig. Posted: 06 Jan 2015, 18:24 |
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Joined: 01/09/13
Posts: 1249
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Location: Frederick , MD (KHGR)
Aircraft: C421 B36TC 58P
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Username Protected wrote: Weather can change every 5-10 minutes when it's bad. A cloud here or there rolls in and out...
I can't remember how many times guys get it in and I don't or vice versa.. Just to many variables.. Maybe a plane has a HUD. I've seen the runway and the co-pilot didn't - He is looking inside for a split second and I was outside etc.... ... who knows.... The airport everyone was diverting to is FTY (Fulton County). It can't be 5 miles as a crow flies. Why would the weather be so different there?
Not sure why the weather was so different but kinda like weather being good for 1 plane getting in another not getting in.
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Good Luck,
Tim
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Post subject: Re: That PC12 is biiiiiiiig. Posted: 06 Jan 2015, 18:28 |
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Joined: 12/19/08
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Username Protected wrote: I agree with that. With that said, give me a 172 with synthetic vision and WAAS (don't need an ILS) and a 5000' runway and I will land it every time at near 0/0 without incident. If I did it in a Citation I might make it work 1 out of 10 if I was lucky.
Once FLIR technology is advanced enough we will be landing 0/0 all the time as SOP. Todd, 0/0 might actually be easier in a Citation. Throttles to idle at 50, nothing else left to do. It's the speed William. I can feel for the ground at 50 MPH and have literally 30 seconds to find it. In the Citation you do not have that luxury. Never flown a Pilatus, do you flare?
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The kid gets it all. Just plant us in the damn garden, next to the stupid lion.
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Post subject: Re: That PC12 is biiiiiiiig. Posted: 06 Jan 2015, 18:29 |
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Joined: 11/09/13
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Location: KCMA
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Username Protected wrote: I agree with that. With that said, give me a 172 with synthetic vision and WAAS (don't need an ILS) and a 5000' runway and I will land it every time at near 0/0 without incident. If I did it in a Citation I might make it work 1 out of 10 if I was lucky.
Once FLIR technology is advanced enough we will be landing 0/0 all the time as SOP. Todd, 0/0 might actually be easier in a Citation. Throttles to idle at 50, nothing else left to do. Never flown a Pilatus, do you flare?
Engine in front, flare required.
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Post subject: Re: That PC12 is biiiiiiiig. Posted: 06 Jan 2015, 18:37 |
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Joined: 08/25/13
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Todd,
I understand what you mean. I'm just saying, in CJ1, CJ2, CJ3, or Beech 400 you won't need that luxury.
If the winds are reasonable and the plane is in trim (which it would be, if you're coming down the WASS glideslope on autopilot), pulling the power at 50AGL and doing absolutely nothing, it will just land itself.
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Post subject: Re: That PC12 is biiiiiiiig. Posted: 06 Jan 2015, 18:42 |
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Joined: 11/06/10
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Username Protected wrote: Engine in front, flare required. Nope. Good way to kill a lot of planes. Mooney, Cirrus, Aerostar just to start. Tim
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Post subject: Re: That PC12 is biiiiiiiig. Posted: 06 Jan 2015, 18:44 |
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Joined: 12/16/07
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Username Protected wrote: 3,800 foot runway in rain wouldn't be high on my list in a Citation V. Note that runway 21L at PDK is 6000 ft. Whether jets made it in or not was due primarily to ceilings and viz, not runway condition, and a number of jets landed before and after PC-12s. But the point is valid, TPs can get into smaller airports with wet, snowy, or icy runways when jets can't. Mike C.
Thanks. I was just trying to share some considerations with the jet in general others may not appreciate. Didn't look at this specific situation. The transport category folks have to look at several factors before they go in that GA isn't required to, as you know.
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Dave Siciliano, ATP
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Post subject: Re: That PC12 is biiiiiiiig. Posted: 06 Jan 2015, 18:45 |
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Username Protected wrote: The ILS at PDK has had a NOTAM for some time. No NOTAM on file that I can find. What did it say? Mike C.
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Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: That PC12 is biiiiiiiig. Posted: 06 Jan 2015, 18:46 |
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Username Protected wrote: Todd,
I understand what you mean. I'm just saying, in CJ1, CJ2, CJ3, or Beech 400 you won't need that luxury.
If the winds are reasonable and the plane is in trim (which it would be, if you're coming down the WASS glideslope on autopilot), pulling the power at 50AGL and doing absolutely nothing, it will just land itself. Your assuming that you will land in the middle of the runway. The slow speed gives you time to make sure the Synthetic vision is correct.
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The kid gets it all. Just plant us in the damn garden, next to the stupid lion.
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Post subject: Re: That PC12 is biiiiiiiig. Posted: 06 Jan 2015, 18:47 |
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Joined: 11/09/13
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Username Protected wrote: Engine in front, flare required. Nope. Good way to kill a lot of planes. Mooney, Cirrus, Aerostar just to start. Tim
Yup! Agree to disagree
Last edited on 06 Jan 2015, 18:48, edited 1 time in total.
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Post subject: Re: That PC12 is biiiiiiiig. Posted: 06 Jan 2015, 18:47 |
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Joined: 08/25/13
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Username Protected wrote: Engine in front, flare required. Nope. Good way to kill a lot of planes. Mooney, Cirrus, Aerostar just to start. Tim
What do you mean? My personal ride is an Acclaim. That airplane requires quite a bit level off and then a ton of flare, otherwise, it will land nose first and bounce. Cirrus lands a lot flatter and I have no experience in Aerostar.
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Post subject: Re: That PC12 is biiiiiiiig. Posted: 06 Jan 2015, 18:51 |
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Username Protected wrote: Todd,
I understand what you mean. I'm just saying, in CJ1, CJ2, CJ3, or Beech 400 you won't need that luxury.
If the winds are reasonable and the plane is in trim (which it would be, if you're coming down the WASS glideslope on autopilot), pulling the power at 50AGL and doing absolutely nothing, it will just land itself. Your assuming that you will land in the middle of the runway. The slow speed gives you time to make sure the Synthetic vision is correct.
Time to do what in 0/0? If the WASS signal was correct, you're in the middle of the runway. If not, then well, it's a crapshoot but 60knots vs 95knots is not going to do you much difference. I say 60knots, because if it's an emergency 0/0 landing, I'm not dragging in even a 172. Last thing I need is to stall that thing in the soup.
BTW, believe it or not, and I'm not sure if that's still the case, but during my European IFR training 20 or so years ago, we actually were required to train for and demonstrate emergency 0/0 during the check ride.
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Post subject: Re: That PC12 is biiiiiiiig. Posted: 06 Jan 2015, 19:25 |
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Username Protected wrote: Nope. Good way to kill a lot of planes. Mooney, Cirrus, Aerostar just to start.
Tim What do you mean? My personal ride is an Acclaim. That airplane requires quite a bit level off and then a ton of flare, otherwise, it will land nose first and bounce. Cirrus lands a lot flatter and I have no experience in Aerostar.
I was taught to land the Cirrus in a very flat manor, nose comes up just a couple of degrees. There is no "flare" that most pilots expect. Once the wheels on the ground, you can raise the nose for aerodynamic braking, but that is not a flare. Same method applies to the Aerostar.
The two Mooney flights I have had the privilege of enjoying, and one was a Mooney instructor, flew the plane and landed the plane as I landed the Cirrus and Aerostar.
One of the causes of porpoise landings is hitting the main gear hard enough to bounce up and then dropping the nose. This is often caused by flaring the plane to much, with the wing suddenly stalling (easy to do in ground effect with a laminar wing).
From an aerodynamic perspective this was how it was explained to me. With the low/ laminar flow wings, when you enter ground effect you lose a fair amount of drag. This allows the wing to dramatically increase the lift it creates. As a result, you do not need to flare the plane to any significant degree.
The exception to this short fields or fast vertical descents where you come in faster the a 3 degree downslope.
Tim
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Post subject: Re: That PC12 is biiiiiiiig. Posted: 06 Jan 2015, 19:38 |
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Joined: 01/16/11
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Tim, I'm seriously not a good pilot, but I land good  Cirrus and the Mooney can be flared like a 172. Mooney is an incredibly easy plane to land if you control the speeds and flare. Most of the Cirri landings I see the folks land to fast and too flat. It seems that is how it is taught. I flare the Baron too. That thing is a brick compared to the Mooney or the Cirrus. It's all the AeroStar time making you bring it in like a fighter pilot  However, as long as you walk away, the plane flies the next week, then from what I've read, you've done good!!
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Post subject: Re: That PC12 is biiiiiiiig. Posted: 06 Jan 2015, 19:39 |
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Username Protected wrote: The ILS at PDK has had a NOTAM for some time. No NOTAM on file that I can find. What did it say? Mike C.
Something about coupled approach not working below 200'. It gets all wishy washy. I think I read it a week ago. Maybe a month or 3. Go back and check the notams over the last few months and see what you see.
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