BeechTalk - BT - Cessna Citation 500 Series vs Citation Jet 525 Series

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 Jun 2018, 03:52

Username Protected wrote:

Spent 6 hours over 4 legs in a CJ2+ today. You jet guys are spoiled! I’m jealous.
Barring emergencies, the 421 is definitely more workload.

Jack keep that quiet....

I keep telling everyone how hard it is :peace:

Andrew

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 Jun 2018, 07:40

Username Protected wrote:

Barring emergencies, the 421 is definitely more workload.

Not clear that is different during an emergency.

For engine failure, no contest, the jet wins.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 Jun 2018, 08:26

Does anyone know any first hand accounts of serious emergencies in a Citation series jet? I'm around some people that have a lot of time in these and I have yet to hear a scary emergency story. I think they're just really reliable and safe machines, 500 or 525; all good stuff!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 Jun 2018, 08:37

CJ emergencies are pretty straight forward. All the checklists are in one little quick referenced book and most are 20 line items or less. Much easier than the airlines where we'd run a big checklist then dig into multiple pages of the flight manual to understand what we had and what we lost and the limitations around these losses.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 Jun 2018, 08:45

Username Protected wrote:

Engine failure for sure, loss of pressurization, not as simple.
Without the type rating I have no idea the host of emergency scenarios that are possible, but I imagine there are a few that can be pretty ugly.

421C is more airplane to handle SP vs the Citation in my experience. Especially true with emergencies.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 Jun 2018, 09:29

Username Protected wrote:

Does anyone know any first hand accounts of serious emergencies in a Citation series jet? I'm around some people that have a lot of time in these and I have yet to hear a scary emergency story.

Here's one:

https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/Repor ... l&IType=LA

viewtopic.php?f=41&t=124018

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 Jun 2018, 09:48

Username Protected wrote:

Without the type rating I have no idea the host of emergency scenarios that are possible, but I imagine there are a few that can be pretty ugly.

Here's the list of emergency procedures in the CJ2+ AFM:

Attachment:

cj2p-emergencies.png

Fits all on one page. Quite a short list.

Nothing too surprising.

There's a longer list of abnormal procedures (3 pages of index).

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 Jun 2018, 11:06

Username Protected wrote:

Without the type rating I have no idea the host of emergency scenarios that are possible, but I imagine there are a few that can be pretty ugly.

Here's the list of emergency procedures in the CJ2+ AFM:

Attachment:

cj2p-emergencies.png

Fits all on one page. Quite a short list.

Nothing too surprising.

There's a longer list of abnormal procedures (3 pages of index).

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 Jun 2018, 11:07

Username Protected wrote:

Does anyone know any first hand accounts of serious emergencies in a Citation series jet? I'm around some people that have a lot of time in these and I have yet to hear a scary emergency story.

Here's one:

https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/Repor ... l&IType=LA

viewtopic.php?f=41&t=124018

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 Jun 2018, 12:26

Username Protected wrote:

Does anyone know any first hand accounts of serious emergencies in a Citation series jet? I'm around some people that have a lot of time in these and I have yet to hear a scary emergency story. I think they're just really reliable and safe machines, 500 or 525; all good stuff!

Yup, lost all cabin pressurization over about 2 minutes descending out of FL350 on the RYTHM arrival into KNEW with lots of active TRW between me and KNEW.

Scary, no. Busy, yes.

Problem due to a torn secondary door seal.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 Jun 2018, 12:50

Username Protected wrote:

That's only a "list" of the emergency procedures Mike. There are 17 "pages" of emergency procedures.

That's what the keyboard pilot thinks. There are 72 pages in the Emergency/Abnormal Procedures Checklist.

Here is the index:

Attachment:

2018-06-28_1244.png

Attachment:

2018-06-28_1244_001.png

Attachment:

2018-06-28_1245.png

Attachment:

2018-06-28_1245_001.png

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 Jun 2018, 16:09

Username Protected wrote:

That's only a "list" of the emergency procedures Mike. There are 17 "pages" of emergency procedures.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 Jun 2018, 16:55

Username Protected wrote:

What was a 501 doing at FL430?; only certified to 410.

Had a Sierra STC ST09559AC which increased the operating ceiling to FL430.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 Jun 2018, 18:57

He did specify "Emergency" procedures and acknowledged that there were numerous other (3 pages of index) "Abnormal" procedures. So the keyboard pilot was largely correct.[/quote]

_____________________________________________________________________

Thank you Jay.

_____________________________________________________________________

Allen,

Keyboard pilot? CFII ASMEL , ATP, Type rated Lear Jet, B727, B747 , Check airman B727, B747, 22,000 hours plus. I don't list that with my avatar, just because. There are a lot of BTer's on here with some impressive experience, including impressive military iron, but they just don't list it. It's nice that you are a CJ2 pilot, but be careful about labeling other pilots. Like has been said before, the twin recip pilot has his hands full a lot more than a light jet pilot, or even a multi-crew heavy jet pilot does.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 Jun 2018, 21:33

Paul,

I'm not 100% positive but I think Allen was referring to Mike.

PS - that's a very impressive resume!