I do it has happened more than once. They are nicknamed Garrett Grenades for a reason.

GTSIO vibrates? Why don’t I feel it?

Correct. I have seen nothing specific to the GTSIO as some have implied.

I certainly didn't mean to imply that.

Three years ago, a customer of mine made the transition from a C-421C to a 441. I don't have the number directly available, but operating cost are only slightly higher in the 441 only because we use an outside shop for the larger maintenance items. I have flown two 800NM trips exactly the same, one in the 441 and one in my Superstar 700 Aerostar, and fuel burn was $60 more for the 441.

I can count the items on one hand that we have had to take care of between 100/200 hour inspections in the 350 hours that we have had it. The airplane has only been out of service once during that two and a half years, and that was due to a lightning strike at an unknown time. We have had zero parts availability issues, and the shop that maintains it has said that parts availability is not an issue (they maintain four of them total).

The Cessna Phase inspection program is intimidating for the 425/441, but once you dig into it you will find that it's not really that difficult to comply with if you are savvy with Excel, etc. You need someone that knows the inspection programs to do the prebuy or you can get into trouble. Ours had records kept by WestStar, and WestStar missed approximately 15 inspections that our preferred shop caught before the airplane arrived (and ended up being ferried to the prebuy).

If you don't fly much, I'd give a lot of consideration to the Bacon LLIP program.

In my opinion, the C-441 is the perfect personal airplane. I can't personally afford to purchase one. I love my Aerostar, but I would take another C-421C in a heartbeat only because of the comfort for the charity flights that I fly.

So how does the LAV work on a early 421C? It looks like a bucket with a bag? If so how do you dispose of it? If someone goes #2 I can’t imagine you just throw the bag in the garage? But maybe it’s like Diapers and It’s just what’s done?

Can anyone shed some light on the process of a dry LAV?

Mike

[quote="Michael Pyle"]So how does the LAV work on a early 421C? It looks like a bucket with a bag? If so how do you dispose of it? If someone goes #2 I can’t imagine you just throw the bag in the garage? But maybe it’s like Diapers and It’s just what’s done?

Can anyone shed some light on the process of a dry LAV?

That's exactly what you do. I used to line the plastic bag with a Depends. Frankly, my rule was if you needed to do #2 you had to step outside into the smoking section. In all my years that never was needed. I guess if you have small kids that might be a real issue.

On another note, if you carry more than 2 people, a 421 is the best Piston twin out there. I must say my MU2 is the best, most reliable plane that I have ever owned and other than my prop overhauls and batteries the operating cost difference is marginal.

Parts, even those not connected to the engine system in anyway, simply last longer on turbine aircraft. You can see this when you compare 414/421 to 425/441. More clearly, the folks who flew a Malibu/Mirage and then converted to JetProp also say part failures are way down even though they are the same part for both the piston and now turbine versions.

The most logical explanation for this is that a piston engine induces a lot of vibration in the airframe, even small ones you can't feel at frequencies you don't perceive. This microshaking of everything wears out connectors, wires, mechanical doodads, hardware, pipes, etc. It can even break electronic parts on circuit boards.

Mike C.

I use plastic bags with a draw string and put kitty litter in the bottom .
If someone goes #2 just close the draw string and tie a knot.
The line personnel know how to dispose of the bag.

You can also purchase commercial camp toilet bags for about $10 at Walmart. Heavy plastic full of some sort of kitty litter with a double or triple Ziploc at the top.

Here you go Michael. This makes it really easy. No mess, no smell.
On a long flight with four kids I'll sometimes add a depends to the bag also.

https://www.amazon.com/Reliance-Product ... g=btalk-20

For #1 there’s a relief tube. Just vents the pee overboard onto unsuspecting civilians on the ground. Works great.

Robert

It evaporates long before it hits the ground.

Relief tubes are bad ideas for airplane corrosion. Travel Johns are a better solution.

Mike C.

My Mirage had a relief tube and I never used it. For one reason I didn’t want to flush it all the time and clean the bottom of the fuselage. But mostly with the suction I was worried I would like too much. Hehe.

The travel johns are great. Just make sure you have one on standby if
You over fill the first one. Learned that the hard way. LOL.

Mike

I had similar, though not quite as drastic, experiences as Marti with the 421 and 441. I loved flying a 421 but it is not possible to operate one well without good mx, preferably on field. The 441 needs good mx too, just much less of it, and I don't mind flying it across the country when it needs it.

I still miss how quiet the 421 was though. I can't imagine a more comfy piston exists.