I've become less and less sure prebuy inspections are worth it.

Every plane I bought before this had a prebuy, but serious things are always missed. The only prebuy that is worth anything is a full on inspection, but you rarely get to do that due to logistics, shop time, seller hesitancy, etc.

Honestly, my outcome from this purchase was less surprising than what I had when I bought planes with prebuy inspections. I think that is because planes in this class get better maintenance overall.


Plenty of planes go through prebuys and stuff like that is missed.


That's a phase 1-5 time scale, which is ridiculous.

For my V, I did a paperwork review (which is the most important thing to do in this class airplane), had engines borescoped, did a pretty thorough shake down flight (with a Cessna test pilot, no less), and I personally examined a few things myself (like tail cone condition, for example).

My flight test used a report format that Cessna used for production flight test. Had like 300 test points on it. We went to FL450.


Sum total of those 20 items cost me less than $5K to fix. Not a big deal on this scale of purchase.

The most expensive thing was the right engine ignition leads were the wrong type. They were the pin type instead of the button type. This issue had been missed for YEARS of inspections since they were wrongly install at some point at the factory service center. That cost me $2K to get the right ones. I lay odds a prebuy doesn't find this at all given how many times it was missed in the past.

Mike C.

Your viewpoint is cut from the "nobody got fired for buying IBM" mentality. You pay for reputations and impressions of quality.

I think your viewpoint works for certain class of people who have the excess money to throw it around and feel like they got what they paid for.

For others, the money following your advice is wasted and can keep them out of a plane they could otherwise afford.

It is clear why you have a very different impression of what it cost to fly my plane based on the vendors you recommend to do the work.

It is easy to recommend expensive vendors when you aren't the one paying the bill.

You try to maintain an aura of expertise around your advice. That is basically your product that you sell. Spreading FUD for not doing it your way is one tactic to do this. Your way is not the only way.

Mike C.

Your viewpoint is cut from the "nobody got fired for buying IBM" mentality. You pay for reputations and impressions of quality.

I think your viewpoint works for certain class of people who have the excess money to throw it around and feel like they got what they paid for.

For others, the money following your advice is wasted and can keep them out of a plane they could otherwise afford.

It is clear why you have a very different impression of what it cost to fly my plane based on the vendors you recommend to do the work.

It is easy to recommend expensive vendors when you aren't the one paying the bill.

You try to maintain an aura of expertise around your advice. That is basically your product that you sell. Spreading FUD for not doing it your way is one tactic to do this. Your way is not the only way.

Mike C.

I provided some invoices from one of Chip’s more favored shops to emphasize this point to the larger audience a while back and I’ve paid the price to agree with you on this one Mike, such an unpleasant experience that I wouldn’t wish on any new owner/operator

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=208099

I provided some invoices from one of Chip’s more favored shops to emphasize this point to the larger audience a while back and I’ve paid the price to agree with you on this one Mike, such an unpleasant experience that I wouldn’t wish on any new owner/operator

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=208099

It doesn't seem like much value add to be a consultant that basically tells their clients to do more extensive things at the most expensive shops.

You might as well bypass them and just go to those shops directly. The list is short and well known: Textron, Duncan, Stevens. You don't need to pay someone else to tell you that list.

The real value would be in providing guidance that leads to your outcomes and cost being LESS. Then your service is actually improving your customer's experience.

Those high priced shops have a certain clientele. Cost is not the first priority. For many owners, that simply doesn't work, but then, those folks don't hire someone whose advice is to go there in the first place. Thus the market impression can be narrowed by self selected and not truly cover all of it.

It is kind of like asking a consultant to recommend a car you should buy and all they tell you is to get a $150K Mercedes. Well, you could have just gone to the dealer yourself, the advice was not actually all that enlightening or helpful.

Mike C.

In your world, yes. You only use shops like that so you think that is all there is.

In my world, no. I don't use shops like that.

Your normal is not everybody's normal.

Mike C.

It doesn't seem like much value add to be a consultant that basically tells their clients to do more extensive things at the most expensive shops.

You might as well bypass them and just go to those shops directly. The list is short and well known: Textron, Duncan, Stevens. You don't need to pay someone else to tell you that list.

The real value would be in providing guidance that leads to your outcomes and cost being LESS. Then your service is actually improving your customer's experience.

Those high priced shops have a certain clientele. Cost is not the first priority. For many owners, that simply doesn't work, but then, those folks don't hire someone whose advice is to go there in the first place. Thus the market impression can be narrowed by self selected and not truly cover all of it.

It is kind of like asking a consultant to recommend a car you should buy and all they tell you is to get a $150K Mercedes. Well, you could have just gone to the dealer yourself, the advice was not actually all that enlightening or helpful.

Mike C.

In your world, yes. You only use shops like that so you think that is all there is.

In my world, no. I don't use shops like that.

Your normal is not everybody's normal.

Mike C.

And yet you say a prebuy on V should take 4 weeks at your gold plated shops.

That isn't consistent.


For those people willing to hire you, that's probably a true statement about them.


What are you saying here? That the small shop is doing a better job finding the problems? That the large shop magically doesn't have relocation costs or inspection expenses? That sellers would rather have a $250K squawk list from the large shop than a $100K one from the small shop?

None of that makes sense to me.

Mike C.

How many of those maintenance consultants encourage their clients to take their airplanes to Elliott, Stevens or Textron?

So...Should I buy a Meridian?

To be fair - we sort of STARTED a prebuy.

Luckiest bad decision I ever made.

On the old piston planes I buy (and I think Mike's V falls in the same category) - I'm with him on saying the right buyer can skip the prebuy. You need to find the things that might turn the plane into beer cans, and everything else you live with as part of the cost of owning an old plane. You adjust your offer accordingly, and most sellers will give an oversized discount for the relief of not having a full prebuy hanging over their heads.

On a plane that's near new, or being marketed as "top of the line" - I'd do the prebuy and hammer the seller on every last thing found. Don't tell me it's perfect if it's not (and no plane is.)

And yet you say a prebuy on V should take 4 weeks at your gold plated shops.

That isn't consistent.


For those people willing to hire you, that's probably a true statement about them.


What are you saying here? That the small shop is doing a better job finding the problems? That the large shop magically doesn't have relocation costs or inspection expenses? That sellers would rather have a $250K squawk list from the large shop than a $100K one from the small shop?

None of that makes sense to me.

Mike C.

How many of those maintenance consultants encourage their clients to take their airplanes to Elliott, Stevens or Textron?