If that's the route you want it for going lower is a no brainier. You will loose 6-10kts minimum due to the install. And that will be for every single flight. Or fly that leg 10000' lower and lose 15-18kts. For that leg only. Easy choice
If you lived up north and every flight during 1/2 of the year might involve ice, the choice becomes more difficult. You won't recover the cost upon sale. And many won't want it due to the slower performance. And pay 35-50k to go slower. That one time it saves your arse should have been easily avoidable in your areas.
I just came back from Denver. Stayed at 9500 then up to 11500 and finally 15500. There was a layer that looked like it might contain ice from the charts. Sure enough heard 2 reports of moderate rime at 15500 where I was, but lower and VFR. I was only about 10kts slower for that portion at same fuel flow, unlike a turbine. A month from now might have been more difficult if freezing level approached the surface with a layer like we usually get from 3-6k.

If that's the route you want it for going lower is a no brainier. You will loose 6-10kts minimum due to the install. And that will be for every single flight. Or fly that leg 10000' lower and lose 15-18kts. For that leg only. Easy choice
If you lived up north and every flight during 1/2 of the year might involve ice, the choice becomes more difficult. You won't recover the cost upon sale. And many won't want it due to the slower performance. And pay 35-50k to go slower. That one time it saves your arse should have been easily avoidable in your areas.
I just came back from Denver. Stayed at 9500 then up to 11500 and finally 15500. There was a layer that looked like it might contain ice from the charts. Sure enough heard 2 reports of moderate time at 15500 where I was lower and VFR. Was only about 10kts slower for that portion at same fuel flow. Unlike a turbine. A month from now might have been more difficult if freezing level approached the surface with a layer like we usually get 3-6k.

Never underestimate how badly you want deice equipment the few times you really need it.

How much oil is caught up in all the hoses in a turbo engine?

Not much. 8-10oz

For the routes I fly crossing the country at least 75 times in Barons and the Eclipse, I have never really needed the deice but on 1 trip. That was in the P Baron and I could have avoided the ice but it was handling it so well that I charged on.

But, if you need it you need it; even if just once. I see both sides of the coin and it's a lot of coin to install on a non-business recreational airplane.

Intersting, I was talking with Justin Hawkins at lancair not too long ago about oil pans and the idea of upgrading to the larger capacity one, he said it would not clear the nose gear strut and was the one who told me that none of the lancairs are able to run that pan, if you have experience otherwise i'll concede the point- I placard'd my oil door on the cowl with the capacity and oil type as I noticed one day that anything less than 6quarts in my setup will cause rapid oil loss on steep climbs- like 1quart in an hour has happened that way

Intersting, I was talking with Justin Hawkins at lancair not too long ago about oil pans and the idea of upgrading to the larger capacity one, he said it would not clear the nose gear strut and was the one who told me that none of the lancairs are able to run that pan, if you have experience otherwise i'll concede the point- I placard'd my oil door on the cowl with the capacity and oil type as I noticed one day that anything less than 6quarts in my setup will cause rapid oil loss on steep climbs- like 1quart in an hour has happened that way

Continental actually certified the engine to still run with 1 quart in it. Runs hot as hell but 1qt is enough for lubrication if all the oil got pissed out.

the primary symptom i had when mine ran as low as 4quarts once was reduced oil pressure- i saw it decaying on descent which is odd, usually as the oil cools it rises...this was before i did a top overhaul, my old cylinders had a nice feature where they'd pump all the damn oil out the exhaust and this was apparently way worse when the pan dropped below the 5quart level, i believe Todd's explanation explains what i experienced, enhanced by the bad rings blowing out oil making it worse

i assume the pump was caveating and thus the lower pressure (temps weren't that much higher) and the turbo/wastegate controller suffered the most

Is it just me or is it sad there is more Lancair activity here than their own site?

i've always been curious if it's because everyone's busy flying and their planes just work, VAF is how any given experimental with a reasonable fleet size should be, yet places like lancair talk are pretty quiet

Brian

It's not about the money of the item, but the risk and benefit tolerance of the owner. Insurance is nothing more than a gamble and a matter of risk/benefit tolerance. And, if an item is uninsurable there's probably a lot of opportunity to buy it much cheaper.

If everyone operated with absolutely NO insurance at all, eventually we would all end up winners. If we were a sloppy careless operator, we may take a long time to come out ahead, or perhaps never. If we were exceptionally safer with operations, we come out better quicker.

But, there are people that feel that ANY risk of loss of a $200K toy is too risky. There are others that feel that a risk of loss of a $200 watch is too much (that I call crazy).

And another insurance to consider is liability. While the risk is very small, the cost is fairly small to, and the loss can be significant.

I'd certainly entertain getting a $400K plane for $200 and going uninsured. Makes sense.

Your oil system on an experimental can be rational instead of mandated.
I have never studied the room available in the engine compartment of a 4P but surely there is room for a DRY Sump which would solve all your problems.
The factory making rated HP in a air-cooled engine on one quart of oil is too silly to even argue about.

BTW--Dry sump means you carry the oil in a tank and have sections of the special oil pump pumping oil and other sections PULLING oil from the engine back to the oil tank allowing a very shallow oil pan as it holds next to no oil (Dry).
EVERY serious performance engine in any type of racing has/does use a Dry Sump system
If you want more FREE info send me a PM as this is a Beech board and I don't want to drift too far from that.

Brian

It's not about the money of the item, but the risk and benefit tolerance of the owner. Insurance is nothing more than a gamble and a matter of risk/benefit tolerance. And, if an item is uninsurable there's probably a lot of opportunity to buy it much cheaper.

If everyone operated with absolutely NO insurance at all, eventually we would all end up winners. If we were a sloppy careless operator, we may take a long time to come out ahead, or perhaps never. If we were exceptionally safer with operations, we come out better quicker.

But, there are people that feel that ANY risk of loss of a $200K toy is too risky. There are others that feel that a risk of loss of a $200 watch is too much (that I call crazy).

And another insurance to consider is liability. While the risk is very small, the cost is fairly small to, and the loss can be significant.

I'd certainly entertain getting a $400K plane for $200 and going uninsured. Makes sense.

Just clarifying - I am guessing some don't buy hull insurance but I would think few would self-insure the liability part, right?
I don't got the cojones to go naked on liability!