BeechTalk - BT - Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Diesel

Username Protected · **Posted:** 15 Dec 2024, 10:19

Username Protected wrote:

Having participated in the construction of a TIO 550 powered Lancair IVP, Dick Rutan's Voyager, and building 3 composite plansbuilt planes by myself, i suggest the odds of the Veloce 600 prototype flying in February 2025 is significantly less then zero, regardless of how many experienced builders they have on staff. Their composite shop, Volato Aeronaaves in Brazil, does know how to build molds, bag parts and bond structures...but that ain't the hard part.

I won't comment on the design, engineering, systems integration, costs or performance.

They have built quite a few airplanes that are flying. I am not defending them, but peter had zero credentials. I always cringe when I hear pressurized though, that is such a tall hill to climb.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 15 Dec 2024, 11:01

Username Protected wrote:

Sort of like BD-5 discusions used to be.

I came this close > < to putting money on a BD-12/14. Then the prototype failed on its first test flight and it was never heard from again.

I thought, ”That’s it? One bad flight and you say ‘Forget it?’ You just throw the parts back in the box and put the box in the Recycle?” Little Thirtysomething Stuey learned about business that week, without actually putting his own money on the line. The glory days of rec.aviation.homebuilt.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 15 Dec 2024, 12:21

> I always cringe when I hear pressurized though, that is such a tall hill to climb.
Once you've flown pressurized you will always want it, opens up so many options/possibilities.

The Doors/seals are a bear, but with todays modern composites I don't see the structure being that bad. (I really like the rutan boomerang doors for simplicity)

Also with modern brushless motors, one could probably do all electric pressurization.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 15 Dec 2024, 12:29

Username Protected wrote:

> I always cringe when I hear pressurized though, that is such a tall hill to climb.
Once you've flown pressurized you will always want it, opens up so many options/possibilities.

Which is why it is so effective as part of any snake oil sales pitch.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 15 Dec 2024, 12:46

Username Protected wrote:

> I always cringe when I hear pressurized though, that is such a tall hill to climb.
Once you've flown pressurized you will always want it, opens up so many options/possibilities.

The Doors/seals are a bear, but with todays modern composites I don't see the structure being that bad. (I really like the rutan boomerang doors for simplicity)

Also with modern brushless motors, one could probably do all electric pressurization.

Pressurization is amazing, I have been flying with it for 8 years in my Malibu. The problem is not pressurization, it’s the turbos, air conditioning, expensive windows/seals and de ice needed to fully support it. Any cocktail math on the amps required to run pressurization?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 15 Dec 2024, 12:54

Username Protected wrote:

The specs for the Rutan Boomerang
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rutan_Boomerang
Aren't that far off...220knots and 2000nm range.

I have some time in the 'rang. By far the best flying qualities and most efficient of all of Burt's designs, and is waaaay better than any other fast glass homebuilts I've flown - and I've been fortunate enough to fly most of the piston and a couple of turbine models.

Remember, one of several companies Burt sold SCALED to was Beech under Linden Blue when they were still smitten with the Starship. There were aspirations for the 'rang far beyond yokels like me sniffing epoxy in their garages.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 15 Dec 2024, 13:02

Username Protected wrote:

Having participated in the construction of a TIO 550 powered Lancair IVP, Dick Rutan's Voyager, and building 3 composite plansbuilt planes by myself, i suggest the odds of the Veloce 600 prototype flying in February 2025 is significantly less then zero, regardless of how many experienced builders they have on staff. Their composite shop, Volato Aeronaaves in Brazil, does know how to build molds, bag parts and bond structures...but that ain't the hard part.

I won't comment on the design, engineering, systems integration, costs or performance.

They have built quite a few airplanes that are flying. I am not defending them, but peter had zero credentials. I always cringe when I hear pressurized though, that is such a tall hill to climb.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 15 Dec 2024, 17:06

Username Protected wrote:

> I always cringe when I hear pressurized though, that is such a tall hill to climb.
Once you've flown pressurized you will always want it, opens up so many options/possibilities.

The Doors/seals are a bear, but with todays modern composites I don't see the structure being that bad. (I really like the rutan boomerang doors for simplicity)

Also with modern brushless motors, one could probably do all electric pressurization.

I bet electric motor pressurization would be pretty heavy, though, and there would be considerations for loss of electrical power.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 15 Dec 2024, 20:47

Username Protected wrote:

> I always cringe when I hear pressurized though, that is such a tall hill to climb.
Once you've flown pressurized you will always want it, opens up so many options/possibilities.

The Doors/seals are a bear, but with todays modern composites I don't see the structure being that bad. (I really like the rutan boomerang doors for simplicity)

Also with modern brushless motors, one could probably do all electric pressurization.

I bet electric motor pressurization would be pretty heavy, though, and there would be considerations for loss of electrical power.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 15 Dec 2024, 20:55

Boeing has electric pressurization on the 787 and probably all aircraft moving forward. Ducting hot bleed air all around, having heat exchange packs etc seems like a bad idea these days.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 15 Dec 2024, 21:01

Early King Airs had a hydraulic driven Roots supercharger blower in the nacelle like you see on hot rods. It utilized a pretty small engine driven hydraulic pump/motor combination.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 15 Dec 2024, 21:23

Username Protected wrote:

> I always cringe when I hear pressurized though, that is such a tall hill to climb.
Once you've flown pressurized you will always want it, opens up so many options/possibilities.

The Doors/seals are a bear, but with todays modern composites I don't see the structure being that bad. (I really like the rutan boomerang doors for simplicity)

Also with modern brushless motors, one could probably do all electric pressurization.

I bet electric motor pressurization would be pretty heavy, though, and there would be considerations for loss of electrical power.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 15 Dec 2024, 21:56

Username Protected wrote:

How is replacing that with an electric blower helpful?

No ducts, no air leaks. Electrical cables are way easier to route than air ducts. Pressure is generated where it's needed. Electricity could be fed from multiple alternators / engines.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 15 Dec 2024, 22:23

Username Protected wrote:

How is replacing that with an electric blower helpful?

No ducts, no air leaks. Electrical cables are way easier to route than air ducts. Pressure is generated where it's needed. Electricity could be fed from multiple alternators / engines.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 15 Dec 2024, 23:06

On one or two testbeds we ran the bleed air through an ejector that mixed it with ambient air. This reduced the required amount of bleed air enough to be useful, but it wouldn't have worked as well with a higher pressure differenital or at higher altitudes.