A Winnebago is definitely more comfortable than a Citation, too. But the travel time, well...

Piaggio is a nice airplane, definitely shows what can be done if your design a purpose made turboprop and not just adding turboprop engines to a piston heritage airframe.


I have run into many places where jets are less than TPs. Not the majority, but also not exceedingly rare.


Huge factor in lower costs of a Citation Having phase 5 out to 6 years and the phase 1-4 out to 3 years means vastly less wear and tear taking the plane apart and a lot less money. It also means more uptime!

Mike C.

Can the LUMP schedule be published?

Do any other phases get extended or just those 5?

Textron sends a letter wit the schedule for each individual request.

I've attached mine for reference.


Basically just those 5 (plus phase B).

Phase 18 is a safety inspection every year, takes ~3-4 hours.

Phase 20 is transponder and RVSM every 2 years, takes 1 day.

Battery cap check is ~6 months.

There is really not that much to do between the phase 1-5 major inspections.

Mike C.

If I read the docs right, you just went through phase 15,16 and 17 (all due at 10k hours.) Can you share the costs for the inspections and for addressing the discrepancies found?

Out of curiosity where?

Phase 15, 16, 17 and 67 are 10,000 hour inspections.

Phase 16 (cabin door and engine mounts) and 17 (cabin structure) don't require specialized equipment (just visual observation) and were performed slightly early when I did my phase 1-4 last year and done by my local shop. Doing it will the plane was open saved money despite doing it about 100 hours early. No findings.

Phase 15 is eddy current checking of fin spar bolt holes. This was done earlier this year by a tech who came to my shop. My shop pulled the bolts, the tech did the check, the bolts were reinstalled. No findings.

Phase 67 is ultrasound check of the main wing spar knuckles. That was done this year by the same tech on the same trip. Access is through panels in the wing. No findings.

The tech says they do hundreds of these checks and have never found any issues. I would not be anxious about any of these inspections.

I scheduled my tasks on the same day the tech was coming up to inspect another plane, which saved travel costs. They inspected a Cessna 210 spar carry through on the same day.

The total cost for all 10,000 hour inspections was just over $5K for all four of them, which included the local shop labor, the labor and my part of the travel costs for the tech, and the rental of the go, no go samples from Textron for the wing lugs.

The next intervals for this batch of inspections are:

Phase 15 (fin spar eddy): 4000 hours
Phase 16 (cabin door and engine mounts): 5000 hours
Phase 17 (cabin structure): 10,000 hours
Phase 67 (wing lug ultrasound): 1200 hours

The shortest one is the wing lug ultrasound, but that is now 8 to 10 years away at my current flying rate. I am unlikely to reach the others during my ownership. Even if I do, the effort is low and the likelihood of a serious issue is very small.

I will note that other models of Citations, like 501 and 550, may have different sets of inspections and those may be more onerous than mine, but for me, the 10,000 hour inspections were no big deal.

Mike C.

Out of curiosity where?

Seems to me the biggest fee places end up as “opportunity cost”, in that we tend to avoid them rather than using perhaps the most convenient place for a trip, or perhaps making a different trip altogether.

We for sure change where we land based on fees.

My wife and I were going to go somewhere for our anniversary. Thought hey let’s go to Jackson hole. Looked at the fees and we decided against it.

Wasn’t that we couldn’t afford it but just don’t want to feel ripped off.

Funny thing is we love to go to Cabo and the fees are pretty crazy. But the service and convenience is the best.

Mike

Yeah, that's a good way to put it.

The irritating thing is the increasing number of places where there are both high fees and silly high fuel prices. C'mon, decide which way you want to rip me off, but pick only one!

I see this more and more. People can easily afford something, but they can't afford it or stomach it emotionally. Happens to me more and more as I am getting more cantankerous.

I see this more and more. People can easily afford something, but they can't afford it or stomach it emotionally. Happens to me more and more as I am getting more cantankerous.

I think most of us are ok with paying a premium for premium services or experiences. But paying a premium for basic services is a rip off.

Most airports like Jackson hole are owned by the government. I should be able to use that airport without paying 4x what others charge for landing fees. Crazy how that even became a thing.

It’s like the new tipping thing. Everywhere I go they want a tip. Was in Nashville this last week and all the bands only pay request because that’s how they get more tips. Half the songs that get requested the band does not know. So we sit there and watch then learn on the job. Was way better when the bands just played their favorite songs that they knew everyone loved. Then we would tip because they were amazing. Tips and outrageous pricing are ruining the service industry. Tipflation

Mike

I can spend $100 on a bottle of wine or $400 in a nice steakhouse with friends without batting an eyelid, but will go ballistic over kitchen towels increasing from $12 to $18...

And filling up the car is also really grating me these days. Our little Volvo S60 (not even the big SUV) is $100 to fill up each time here in CA. Insane.

The tipping situation has just turned into everyone effectively putting a 20% discount on the menu, and then putting a small math problem on the bill for you to add it back in.

It always makes me laugh when I see a “4% living wage supplement” or some guilt trip on the bill. You’re the one setting their pay! It has somehow become the customer’s responsibility to run payroll for the establishment at the point of sale. What’s next, “3% new pizza oven addendum”? Put prices on the menu that allow you to operate your business and pay people fairly, what a concept.

And can we stop with the “ok and it’s going to ask you a question”. No, it’s going to ask for a tip. It used to be bad form for a waiter to watch you write the tip on the bill. Now it’s expected at the drive through at Starbucks.