$8MM plane vs. $1.9MM plane.

Why fly a Bonanza when you can fly a Gulfstream? Any sane person would choose the Gulfstream. How are any other manufacturers even in business when Gulfstream is out there? I mean, how do they compete? No contest.

Where's my Rolls Royce? I'm ready to go to the grocery store.

There is no way to lose here -

If Mike is right I should be able to pickup a SF50 for sub $500K because it will depreciate to that level as soon as the "feeling" goes away and reality takes over...

or it could be the next best step forward for GA for short range hops from a manufacturer who has proven it knows how to sell airplanes that fit a need. At which point I will have to find a partnership to buy into.

I win either way.

You guys spend too much time with long range scenarios....pull a fractional share jet tail number or a construction company jet tail number and follow it for a couple of weeks....you will be amazed how many sub 1 hour flights they make, never reaching more than 20-24K feet.


Peace,
Don

I do it all the time. Just track by "type" on flightware. If there are 30 Phenom 300's flying only 2 will have flights over 2 hours. The rest all under 2 hours and many under an hour.

What I find interesting is both the belief that everything useful for aviation has already been invented and that the SF50 competes with Phenom, Citation....
When you look at performance specifications, the only jet which may be considered a competitor is the Eclipse, and even then not really. It really is a longer legged plane with less seats and room.
I do not know about anyone else, but the for short range flying the SF50 hits it really well. Currently a million plus cheaper then the bottom end SETP and more then 2M less then a mid range SETP. Over a period of five years look at the following eye watering numbers for the extra million in capital:

• At 10% annual depreciation you are looking at ~400K loss after five years, at 15% a year it is closer to ~550K loss.
• Interest payments for at least another $250K for the extra million
• Assuming a 1% insurance premium for the million, it is a paltry $50K

Not sure about anyone, but I would think a million bucks buys a lot of Jet-A.

Tim

As long as you aren't a current depositor.

As I said, the best way to buy an SF50 is to wait 2 years after it is introduced and buy a used one. Then and only then will you truly know what you are buying.

If you sign an order today, you aren't getting one for 5 years anyway, so you get the used one faster, too.


For the frax guys, there is a lot of short repo flights.

For the construction guys, they should be flying a turboprop.

The fact they make short flights doesn't negate the value of range when they need it. If we applied your argument, all of our cars should only have 75 miles of fuel in the tank since we make mostly short drives.

A 1 hour flight in an SF50 is about 200 nm. At that distance, it saves only minutes over an SR22. What's the point?

Mike C.

I do it all the time. Just track by "type" on flightware. If there are 30 Phenom 300's flying only 2 will have flights over 2 hours. The rest all under 2 hours and many under an hour.

The point is I'd rather be in the SF50 than the SR22. A new SR22 is still close to a million bucks.

And a CJ for lots more money saves only minutes over an SF50. What's the point?

Based on my observations the turboprops do not depreciate much at all. The only depreciation comes in time depreciation, meaning the engines.........you factor that into your hourly........

I do not see the depreciation hit that you speak of in the turbine market, if anything they appreciate simply because the newer airplanes and parts keep costing more.

A 1 hr flight in a SR22 is closer to 120-130nm.
Also a SR22 is really a three person plane when considering adults, while the SF50 is really a four or maybe five person when considering adults.
The SF50 has pressurization so you do not arrive as tired.
The SF50 has better all weather performance, climb, power and other factors.

At the end of the day, the SF50 is an incremental improvement over the SR22. It is not a whole "another" level like a Citation.

Tim

If you want to take your family across the country, at night, in winter, the CJ saves many HOURS and many fuel stops. It converts a tortuous affair into a reasonable one.

That was the situation proposed. The CJ wins, hands down. It also probably cost no more to fly for that mission.

The SF50 has the cost per mile of a CJ but not the performance.

Mike C.

Based on my observations the turboprops do not depreciate much at all. The only depreciation comes in time depreciation, meaning the engines.........you factor that into your hourly........

I do not see the depreciation hit that you speak of in the turbine market, if anything they appreciate simply because the newer airplanes and parts keep costing more.

But how many are cross country flights?
Go look at Netjet programs, go look at flightaware and track by type.
Aviation is almost all regional or local. What do people always say? Buy for 80% of the missions, and charter or spam can the rest. Buying for the exceptional flight is a way to pay for a lot of plane you rarely use.

Tim

If you want to take your family across the country, at night, in winter, the CJ saves many HOURS and many fuel stops. It converts a tortuous affair into a reasonable one.

That was the situation proposed. Mike C.

Why answer the question when you can just change the subject? LOL