Curiously, economy cruise (240kts) in the SF50 is about as fast as my high-speed cruise (235kts) (Columbia 400) at the same altitude.

Don't forget the chick factor....much higher on a Vtail JET!

I've seen a lot of the guys on the waiting list. A v tail anything ain't gonna help...

The Type Certificate finally showed up online. Looks like it did get certified to 28,000' after all.

This seems interesting

"Exemption No. 11092 dated October 23, 2014, §23.177(b), use of electric roll trim for static lateral
stability"

What happens in a complete electrical failure?

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_an ... H_Rev1.pdf

I've seen a lot of the guys on the waiting list. A v tail anything ain't gonna help...

Aren't there a bunch of planes that don't have manual roll trim as a backup?

Curiously, economy cruise (240kts) in the SF50 is about as fast as my high-speed cruise (235kts) (Columbia 400) at the same altitude.

Yes, there are. For example, the Mustang's aileron and rudder trim are electric only. Electric-only trim isn't a problem, especially for a plane like the SF50. Falcon jets have electric trim as well.

It's not the fact that it's electric trim thats of interest, it's the fact that it's the exemption for "use of electric roll trim for static lateral stability".
implies without electric roll trim working,the aircraft becomes static laterally unstable.

It has oddly been lacking. Must exist since you have to have an AFM to give a plane to a customer.

Now that it is out there, do have some FA tracks. Here is a flight:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N1WA ... /KSRQ/KTYS

2 hours to go 540 nm, 27 minutes to climb to FL280. Winds at that time were 250 degrees at 14 knots, effectively net zero wind for the direction of flight, so the cruise speed appears to achieve 300 +/- knots. Previous flight was 24 minutes to FL270.

Climb rate, in *January*, sucks. Wait until the hot weather of summer. Compare:

Cirrus SF50, 6000 lbs MGTOW, total thrust 1846 lbf, climb rate ~1700 FPM.

Eclipse EA550, 6000 lbs MGTOW, total thrust 1800 lbf, climb rate 3424 FPM.

EA550 has less thrust, same weight, and makes twice the climb rate.

This means the SF50 has a lot of drag, most likely due to the V tail and the engine arrangement.

Mike C.

No, it isn't for that reason. It is that the regs require the ability to turn the airplane with either aileron *OR* rudder. Cirrus didn't want to put in an aileron rudder interconnect (which kind of defeats the redundancy anyway and ruins control system feel, too), and that's harder with a V tail in any case, so they argued you could "fly" the airplane with the electric roll trim.

Here is the text of the exemption:

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guida ... /11092.pdf

Flight test results show the level of safety provided by § 23.177(b) remains satisfactory. Cirrus has demonstrated the use of the electric roll trim control system, as part of the approved type design, for lateral control in the event the primary roll controls system becomes disconnected

The Airplane Flight Manual (AFM) Limitations must show that the electric roll trim system must be operational for flight.

So if your aileron control system fails, you cannot fly the airplane laterally on rudder (or at least, not well enough to meet the reg), so you have to use the electric aileron roll trim to fly the plane. Thus the electric roll trim is a no go item if it fails.

I'd like to see a video of a landing done using solely electric roll trim on gusty day. Could be very interesting!

Mike C.

A year ago, Cirrus stated the got climb to max in 20 minutes...

Outside conditions are sea level ISA with no wind. The profile shows a takeoff ground roll of 2,036 feet, followed by a climb to the maximum altitude of FL280 in 20 minutes. The climb burns 32 gallons/214 pounds of fuel and covers 64 nm.
http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/ ... ce-numbers

And for the Eclipse a climb to 28,000 takes 13 minutes and burns 23 gallons/149 lbs and covers 50 nm

More performance less fuel I love it

Welcome back Mike C. I still like the Cirrus Jet, you clearly still don't. What innovative new planes do you think will change the face of GA?

Happy New Year,
Don