Already been laid out several times in this thread./

I guess I’m slumming then, the airplanes we are working with have 8 seats total.

I've posted all of my costs and so has Penman. Chip modified his chart somewhat and it shows the PC12 already lower than what Imagined my costs to be and he refuses to add any figure to the depreciation column.

Now Chip doesn't want to talk about it anymore.

You always focus on depreciation but totally ignore cost of capital in your "analyses". I'll go edit it to green..

I guess I’m slumming then, the airplanes we are working with have 8 seats total.

I guess I’m slumming then, the airplanes we are working with have 8 seats total.

I've posted all of my costs and so has Penman. Chip modified his chart somewhat and it shows the PC12 already lower than what Imagined my costs to be and he refuses to add any figure to the depreciation column.

Now Chip doesn't want to talk about it anymore.

You had time to mess with it for 24 pages or so. Now you don’t?

You can add two more or a 3 person bench.

Or just keep it as is and have a huge cargo space.

Chip. You want a real jolt then calculate cost of seat/Mile in PC12 vs CJ3. Then one understands why these things are the charter hounds they are. And why CJ3’s aren’t. I swear they’re the epitome of a Swiss knife in anairplane. Fly like a bird, stall at what? 70knots? Stop in 1000’. Looked at a 350 ONCE. For the life of me I couldn’t figure out how one got fuel in the aux tanks.

40 to 50k a year to maintain a SETP that seem like a lot!

Those number do not include the warranties for your avionics and other items which seem big jet expensive so you can’t go without. What’s that cost perhour

Then you spend 2million more for it and ignore the capital cost. Hey that’s real money!

If you fly a 120hrs a year it’s $1000.00per hour just for capital cost.

Define "capital cost"

More properly expressed as cost of capital I define it in the traditional manner as the opportunity cost of making a specific investment or rate of return that could have been made in a different, but similar investment. Or it is the cost of the capital used to make the investment (i.e. interest rate on a loan where the investment is leveraged).

I understand that you have a unique view of this issue and, at least for me, its not necessary to re-litigate here. I think that it is an important factor in analyzing the total cost of ownership of an aircraft, along with depreciation. Both of which are often ignored by those who simply don't want to know what the plane's true costs are for some reason.

Everyone's cost of capital is somewhat unique. But if you assume a $1 million asset with a 5% cost of capital (equity or debt) there is a $50,000 per year cost of owning that asset attributable to the cost of capital.

For me, it is things that are directly proportional to the money tied up in the airplane.

- either loan interest or investment income lost, easily 5% per year
- property tax, paid on the Hull value 1% per year

These two things alone for me result in every additional $1M in purchase price cost me the entire year’s worth of operating cost of my current flying.

Some might arguably add actual depreciation, which is naturally going to be more dollars on a higher value airplane. A 10% drop in value on $1M is obviously more than a 10% drop on $500K. You point this out in you CJ argument. I find it harder to count as capital cost partly because it is dependent on many variables. But it is certainly large and real.

For a low utilization owner/pilot, these costs overwhelm the operating costs.

Because I know of no investment with a guaranteed return of even 5% with no risk of the loss of capital I can't just "assume" that it exists.

But let's say it does..... you're suggesting a life of flying commercial and traveling a fraction of the time I currently spend traveling in exchange for a 5% return on my capital? The plane is a major lifestyle upgrade. It's worth it.

By your definition of "cost of capital", why does anyone buy anything? They could be making 5% on that money.

Sorry guys..... I'm not in.