I hate doing math in public, but...

8:1 is 1.33nm/1000 isn't it?

1000' (down) * 8 = 8000' (forward) (8000/6000=1.33) 1.33nm/1000

.75nm/1000 would be 4.5:1

120 Knots and 1500 fpm works out to about 8:1

Your glide ratio is probably better than 8:1. For the mathematically challenged 2:1 is attainable. As in....I can glide 2 miles for every thousand feet of altitude. Quick reference for am I going to get there. Crushing at 17000' and 250kts gives options. It's the low stuff I don't like . Usually use full power to 2-3000'. Then power back to 35" for climb. Full feathering prop gives about 16:1 I have heard. No personal experience but seems very plausible.

No. 2:1 means 2 miles horizontal for 1 mile vertical. Space shuttle-like

No. 2:1 means 2 miles horizontal for 1 mile vertical. Space shuttle-like

Michael,

Let me say this in the most non-threatening way possible. The statement above is ABSOLUTELY wrong. If it was a sarcastic response, make it green, and disregard what follows. If you believe what you said above, Please indulge me and read on.

Practicing simulated engine out landings is not comparable to practicing S/E go-arounds in a Baron... It is comparable to practicing the engine failure after T/O in the Baron. If it is practiced it is a totally survivable event. Not practiced, it is a crap shoot where the lives of yourself and passengers are the chips. Failing to practice EFATOs is a light twin is irresponsible.

You are flying an airplane with a highly stressed tightly cowled engine and HORRIBLE off airport landing characteristics.

Further, I assume most of your flight time is spent at altitudes from which, even at the brick like glide path of a IV-P with a windmilling propeller, could get you to an airport.

In a Cherokee or C-172, with a 50 mph stall speed an engine failure resulting in an off airport landing is most likely survivable. In a IV-P they are almost universally not.

Imagine you are cruising along at FL200 and the oil starts climbing up the windscreen. Your press NRST DIRECT ENTER and find a 3500 ft paved runway 10 miles away. passing through 15000 feet your oil pressure goes to zero and the prop goes to flat pitch. Then you smell the smoke. The engine is going to fail and have to pull the mixture to stop the impending fire.

You can see the airport and now your life and your family's depend on your ability to land the airport on that runway. Having practiced (recently) will dramatically improve the odds of all of you celebrating another birthday....

You are flying a very high performance airplane. You owe it to your family and friends who fly with you, to train to a higher standard than those flying C-172 or even BE-36s.

I encourage you in the STRONGEST way possible to spend some time doing simulated power off landings.

Michael,

Let me say this in the most non-threatening way possible. The statement above is ABSOLUTELY wrong. If it was a sarcastic response, make it green, and disregard what follows. If you believe what you said above, Please indulge me and read on.

Practicing simulated engine out landings is not comparable to practicing S/E go-arounds in a Baron... It is comparable to practicing the engine failure after T/O in the Baron. If it is practiced it is a totally survivable event. Not practiced, it is a crap shoot where the lives of yourself and passengers are the chips. Failing to practice EFATOs is a light twin is irresponsible.

You are flying an airplane with a highly stressed tightly cowled engine and HORRIBLE off airport landing characteristics.

Further, I assume most of your flight time is spent at altitudes from which, even at the brick like glide path of a IV-P with a windmilling propeller, could get you to an airport.

In a Cherokee or C-172, with a 50 mph stall speed an engine failure resulting in an off airport landing is most likely survivable. In a IV-P they are almost universally not.

Imagine you are cruising along at FL200 and the oil starts climbing up the windscreen. Your press NRST DIRECT ENTER and find a 3500 ft paved runway 10 miles away. passing through 15000 feet your oil pressure goes to zero and the prop goes to flat pitch. Then you smell the smoke. The engine is going to fail and have to pull the mixture to stop the impending fire.

You can see the airport and now your life and your family's depend on your ability to land the airport on that runway. Having practiced (recently) will dramatically improve the odds of all of you celebrating another birthday....

You are flying a very high performance airplane. You owe it to your family and friends who fly with you, to train to a higher standard than those flying C-172 or even BE-36s.

I encourage you in the STRONGEST way possible to spend some time doing simulated power off landings.

I respect that and will practice this! Thanks for the advice. Do people practice these in heavy warbirds; I assume yes?[/quote]


every overhead approach is a power off approach in my T-6 and we do practice engine failures, i can tell you that my T-6 sinks faster than my IV-P if not ask doug......

Thank you.

The professionals do. We have configurations that simulate engine out glide. In the Mustang, 2700 rpms, 23", gear down, and flaps 30 is a good approximation of engine out glide performance. And I have done it once for real... Another Mustang pilot has done it twice in the last 5 years. Mine was on a runway, and he put one on a Runway and one on a field road. Not a scratch....

With full tanks and two people (A normal load) go up to 8-10000 AGL over a long runway, with an instructor you trust preferably, slow the airplane down to best glide speed, and then push the prop foward, pull the mixture, hack a timer, and execute a 360 at 30/40 degrees of bank. Note the time, VSI indicated rate of descent, and the altitude lost. Now you have some data. You may find that your VSI is very inaccurate.

Then go back up and do it in varying configurations using a low power setting that keeps the prop from driving the engine. Once you find a configuration comparable to the power off setting you're set.

Take the altitude loss in the turn and add 3-500 feet to it, so a Mustang will lose 2500 feet in a 360 so our "high key" is 3000 AGL. (My guess is the IV-P is very nearly the same.) Now fly an initial over that same runway at best glide, and at mid field, pull the power back and start a continuous turn to short final varying the radius of turn to add or subtract energy. When the runway is made, pull the power to idle, and use flaps to make a spot landing on the fixed distance markers at a reasonable speed without power in the round out. Note the altitude at the 180 point or abeam the touchdown. This is called the "low key." It can be used when sufficient altitude in not available to do the full 360...

Shortly you will find this VERY EASY, and you will be lulled in to thinking that you could do it from a much lower altitude. So then start it from 200 feet lower. Still easy, then try 400 feet lower. What you will find is it goes from very easy to impossible in a heartbeat...

Whether it is your business, your flight, or your marriage, three things are a major contributor to a successful outcome. Humility, confidence, and skill. This type of training will provide all three... (In aviation. As for business and marriage, you are on your own )

Great explanation, Doug. These do take a lot of practice but with practice they really aren't all that hard. I recommend adding just one detail,



Carry about 10 knots more airspeed into the round out than you customarily would on a normal, powered approach. The greater descent rate on final will mean the airplane bleeds more airspeed during the round out. This may vary between different types of aircraft--in some, the bottom really "drops out" and you can prang it in, others you might find you don't need any extra airspeed--but at least while you're learning the maneuver, floating down the runway a bit won't hurt (besides, waveoffs are free). Practice, refine, find what numbers work best.

(Goes without saying, but if the POH has a procedure then use that.)

I printed this and will go up with my instructor and practice this, great info to have, Thanks



Thank you.

The professionals do. We have configurations that simulate engine out glide. In the Mustang, 2700 rpms, 23", gear down, and flaps 30 is a good approximation of engine out glide performance. And I have done it once for real... Another Mustang pilot has done it twice in the last 5 years. Mine was on a runway, and he put one on a Runway and one on a field road. Not a scratch....

With full tanks and two people (A normal load) go up to 8-10000 AGL over a long runway, with an instructor you trust preferably, slow the airplane down to best glide speed, and then push the prop foward, pull the mixture, hack a timer, and execute a 360 at 30/40 degrees of bank. Note the time, VSI indicated rate of descent, and the altitude lost. Now you have some data. You may find that your VSI is very inaccurate.

Then go back up and do it in varying configurations using a low power setting that keeps the prop from driving the engine. Once you find a configuration comparable to the power off setting you're set.

Take the altitude loss in the turn and add 3-500 feet to it, so a Mustang will lose 2500 feet in a 360 so our "high key" is 3000 AGL. (My guess is the IV-P is very nearly the same.) Now fly an initial over that same runway at best glide, and at mid field, pull the power back and start a continuous turn to short final varying the radius of turn to add or subtract energy. When the runway is made, pull the power to idle, and use flaps to make a spot landing on the fixed distance markers at a reasonable speed without power in the round out. Note the altitude at the 180 point or abeam the touchdown. This is called the "low key." It can be used when sufficient altitude in not available to do the full 360...

Shortly you will find this VERY EASY, and you will be lulled in to thinking that you could do it from a much lower altitude. So then start it from 200 feet lower. Still easy, then try 400 feet lower. What you will find is it goes from very easy to impossible in a heartbeat...

Whether it is your business, your flight, or your marriage, three things are a major contributor to a successful outcome. Humility, confidence, and skill. This type of training will provide all three... (In aviation. As for business and marriage, you are on your own )

If you are not practicing engine out patterns and sight pictures, what do you expect to rely on that day your engine decides to quit playing?

Please practice.

Thank you.

The professionals do. We have configurations that simulate engine out glide. In the Mustang, 2700 rpms, 23", gear down, and flaps 30 is a good approximation of engine out glide performance. And I have done it once for real... Another Mustang pilot has done it twice in the last 5 years. Mine was on a runway, and he put one on a Runway and one on a field road. Not a scratch....

With full tanks and two people (A normal load) go up to 8-10000 AGL over a long runway, with an instructor you trust preferably, slow the airplane down to best glide speed, and then push the prop foward, pull the mixture, hack a timer, and execute a 360 at 30/40 degrees of bank. Note the time, VSI indicated rate of descent, and the altitude lost. Now you have some data. You may find that your VSI is very inaccurate.

Then go back up and do it in varying configurations using a low power setting that keeps the prop from driving the engine. Once you find a configuration comparable to the power off setting you're set.

Take the altitude loss in the turn and add 3-500 feet to it, so a Mustang will lose 2500 feet in a 360 so our "high key" is 3000 AGL. (My guess is the IV-P is very nearly the same.) Now fly an initial over that same runway at best glide, and at mid field, pull the power back and start a continuous turn to short final varying the radius of turn to add or subtract energy. When the runway is made, pull the power to idle, and use flaps to make a spot landing on the fixed distance markers at a reasonable speed without power in the round out. Note the altitude at the 180 point or abeam the touchdown. This is called the "low key." It can be used when sufficient altitude in not available to do the full 360...

Shortly you will find this VERY EASY, and you will be lulled in to thinking that you could do it from a much lower altitude. So then start it from 200 feet lower. Still easy, then try 400 feet lower. What you will find is it goes from very easy to impossible in a heartbeat...

Whether it is your business, your flight, or your marriage, three things are a major contributor to a successful outcome. Humility, confidence, and skill. This type of training will provide all three... (In aviation. As for business and marriage, you are on your own )

As much or more than the sight picture it is about developing the ability to sense the energy state and the change in energy state of the airplane relative to a spot on the ground. Energy is the combination of altitude and airspeed. A given amount of energy will take the airplane to a spot on the earth. Excess energy will take the airplane farther.

The secret is to have some excess energy in the bank and then burn it up in the last few hundred feet. To accomplish this the SFO approach is a continuous medium bank turn to a very short final. Tightening the turn will reduce the distance to travel and hence increase the energy relative to the spot on the ground. Decreasing the radius, including an overshoot, will increase the distance and burn off excess energy.

I always start by aiming for the middle of the runway, because it is better to run off the end at 30 than hit the ditch on the approach end at 100. When the middle is made, I move my aim point to the quarter point of the runway and when the runway is made, I wipe off the power, put in the remaining flaps and point at the numbers....

The point about a little extra speed over the power on threshold crossing speed is valid. Most of us land hot airplanes with a little power on in the flare.... Having some energy in the form of speed to replace that is useful..... A little, not a lot....

Again, after a few iterations and with a refresher every spring when we wake up the airplane, it is a non-event. Practicing in lower performance aircraft is worthwhile, but it is a quick ride in the Mustang......

Thank you.

The professionals do. We have configurations that simulate engine out glide. In the Mustang, 2700 rpms, 23", gear down, and flaps 30 is a good approximation of engine out glide performance. And I have done it once for real... Another Mustang pilot has done it twice in the last 5 years. Mine was on a runway, and he put one on a Runway and one on a field road. Not a scratch....

With full tanks and two people (A normal load) go up to 8-10000 AGL over a long runway, with an instructor you trust preferably, slow the airplane down to best glide speed, and then push the prop foward, pull the mixture, hack a timer, and execute a 360 at 30/40 degrees of bank. Note the time, VSI indicated rate of descent, and the altitude lost. Now you have some data. You may find that your VSI is very inaccurate.

Then go back up and do it in varying configurations using a low power setting that keeps the prop from driving the engine. Once you find a configuration comparable to the power off setting you're set.

Take the altitude loss in the turn and add 3-500 feet to it, so a Mustang will lose 2500 feet in a 360 so our "high key" is 3000 AGL. (My guess is the IV-P is very nearly the same.) Now fly an initial over that same runway at best glide, and at mid field, pull the power back and start a continuous turn to short final varying the radius of turn to add or subtract energy. When the runway is made, pull the power to idle, and use flaps to make a spot landing on the fixed distance markers at a reasonable speed without power in the round out. Note the altitude at the 180 point or abeam the touchdown. This is called the "low key." It can be used when sufficient altitude in not available to do the full 360...

Shortly you will find this VERY EASY, and you will be lulled in to thinking that you could do it from a much lower altitude. So then start it from 200 feet lower. Still easy, then try 400 feet lower. What you will find is it goes from very easy to impossible in a heartbeat...

Whether it is your business, your flight, or your marriage, three things are a major contributor to a successful outcome. Humility, confidence, and skill. This type of training will provide all three... (In aviation. As for business and marriage, you are on your own )

As much or more than the sight picture it is about developing the ability to sense the energy state and the change in energy state of the airplane relative to a spot on the ground. Energy is the combination of altitude and airspeed. A given amount of energy will take the airplane to a spot on the earth. Excess energy will take the airplane farther.

The secret is to have some excess energy in the bank and then burn it up in the last few hundred feet. To accomplish this the SFO approach is a continuous medium bank turn to a very short final. Tightening the turn will reduce the distance to travel and hence increase the energy relative to the spot on the ground. Decreasing the radius, including an overshoot, will increase the distance and burn off excess energy.

I always start by aiming for the middle of the runway, because it is better to run off the end at 30 than hit the ditch on the approach end at 100. When the middle is made, I move my aim point to the quarter point of the runway and when the runway is made, I wipe off the power, put in the remaining flaps and point at the numbers....

The point about a little extra speed over the power on threshold crossing speed is valid. Most of us land hot airplanes with a little power on in the flare.... Having some energy in the form of speed to replace that is useful..... A little, not a lot....

Again, after a few iterations and with a refresher every spring when we wake up the airplane, it is a non-event. Practicing in lower performance aircraft is worthwhile, but it is a quick ride in the Mustang......