and 2X the price.

What is a "personal jet"? This term just popped up out of nowhere.

Is the TBM a "personal turboprop"?

How come the TBM can go to 310 but the Cirrus will be held to 280 ?

and 2X the price.

What is a "personal jet"? This term just popped up out of nowhere.

Is the TBM a "personal turboprop"?

I think because it was certified before more strenuous backup requirements were implemented. I think, but could be wrong, that today they require a redundant source of pressurization source for RSVM space, which is hard to do with just one engine.

Because Socata certified to 310. They certified before RVSM, which sets the practical limit at 280 unless you plan to go a lot higher.

Tim

It's got those Swearingen lines. The tail is just a scaled up T-tail of the gorgeous little SX300 tail. Plane is certified, they're just doing amendment to the avionics I think, so should not take too long to get to market. Heard first flight mid 2016, and deliveries 2017.

Then again, this poor plane has had at least 3 different owners since it got certified, so who knows if it'll make it this time? At $7M it's pretty competitive, though. Fastest VLJ, longest range and it has SL cabin up to 41000ft. Nobody else can match that.

A small low cost economical jet.

Just being SP is not enough. A CJ4 is definitely not a "personal jet".

Mike C.

Forced by the regulations.

The SF50 will not go to the high flight levels even if the rules change (which they won't regardless). The ceiling affects MANY things intrinsic to the design. It would have to be a redesign to go up there.

Mike C.

So how is the Eclipse not a "personal jet"?

Wait, TBM can do 310? Wonder how they can do it without that second pressurization source Mike's been harping about.

I looked up the TBM850 AFM.

At FL180, max cruise is 294 KTAS, 70.5 GPH, 4.17 nm/gal.

At FL180, long range cruise is 201 KTAS, 42.8 nm/gal, 4.70 nm/gal.

Both are quite a bit better than the SF50:

MCT 283 KTAS, 84 GPH, 3.37 nm/gal

LRC 217 KTAS, 54 GPH, 4.02 nm/gal.

The TBM850 in high speed cruise is faster and gets better mileage than the the SF50 in LRC.


Something's wrong with the climb rate. The simplest explanation is that the engine is not putting out the expected thrust.

Mike C.

So how is the Eclipse not a "personal jet"?

Yes, the Mustang qualifies.

But they made only 8 last year, 1 in 2016Q1, so not really being made in volume lately.

Mike C.

Answered many times.

TBM and PC12 got certified long ago, prior to amendment 49 of part 23, under rules that allowed higher service ceilings without redundant pressurization. Then the rules changed in amendment 49, lowered that ceiling to Fl250. That left the TBM and PC12 grandfathered, but new designs can't get the same thing.

From AC 23-17C:

Amendment 23-49 and Subsequent

This amendment changed the 33,000 feet in § 23.841(a) to 25,000 feet based on European Joint Aviation Requirements Proposals.

Note that the two grandfathered SETPs are both made in Europe, and the change was made based on European input, and now they can fly high and new designs can't.

Think about that.

Mike C.

You think Cirrus purposefully publishes lame performance data?

I guess that is one coping method, hoping that is so.

Mike C.